Tim Verhoeven (Indeed): ‘Data should be engrained in everything we do in recruiting’

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As the head of Talent Intelligence for Indeed in the DACH region (Germany, Austria, and Switzerland), Tim Verhoeven is at the forefront of transforming how companies approach talent acquisition and retention. His path to becoming a leading voice in HR analytics began roughly 15 years ago. “I started as a recruitment junior manager in a large company”, he recalls. “I tried to focus and learn more and more, eventually writing books about candidate experience and recruitment analytics.”

“Fifteen years ago, what we now call data analytics wasn’t a sexy topic.”

His blog, aptly called ‘Recruiting Nerd‘, as well as his podcast HR Data Dudes, which he co-hosts alongside Trendence’s Christoph Fellinger, reflect a deep passion for bringing empirical rigor to the often intuition-driven world of HR. “Fifteen years ago, what we now call data analytics wasn’t a sexy topic”, Verhoeven says. 

“I saw an opportunity to bring both worlds together — data on one side and HR, particularly recruitment, on the other. We focus on very basic things when we talk about data, to make it easy to comprehend and understand. It’s necessary for our whole branch to move to the next level and educate.”

Germany’s macro and micro challenges

As has been well documented, the number of skilled workers in Germany is expected to decrease significantly by 2040. According to extensive research by the Center for Global Development, Germany could be set for labour shortage of 7 million by 2050 amid European ageing crisis. According to Verhoeven, Germany’s labour market challenges translate to both macro and micro levels. “From a macro perspective, it’s sad but true that Germany is one of the most difficult industrial nations for recruitment, second only to Japan.”

“Many companies and jobs in Germany require you to speak a minimum level of German. That makes it difficult for international talent.”

“But you always need to relate it back to micro levels”, Verhoeven says. “It’s important to talk to companies to understand why they’re acting as they act. For example, why aren’t they willing or able to hire people without German skills? Many companies and jobs in Germany require you to speak a minimum level of German. That makes it difficult for international talent. I saw it more open to English-speaking people in the Netherlands, but in Germany, it isn’t that common. That makes it difficult.”

Recruitment versus retention?

During the inaugural Webinar Tage, a brand-new three-day webinar event organised by ToTalent.eu and Werf& on September 17 to September 19, Verhoeven will share a series of presentations. One of the key discussions he’ll lead on the very first day of the event will be all about the interconnected nature of retention and recruitment. 

“You can’t do good recruitment if you don’t focus on retention. It’s truly one topic.”

“In Germany, there’s a discussion about retention versus recruiting. From my perspective, they go hand in hand”, he asserts. “You can’t do good recruitment if you don’t focus on retention. It’s truly one topic. If your employees aren’t happy, they won’t support you or refer you to others. And if you can find out why they’re happy, you can use this to attract other talents. It all goes hand in hand.”

And right at the heart of the recruitment and retention conundrum? Employer branding. “It’s right in  the middle of it. Because it should be based on what you really do. It should be communicated in a way that’s interesting for your target group. We did a large amount of research on this topic, of which I’ll present the results. It’s a very data-driven presentation, perhaps not typical for an employer branding webinar. But it’s important to always rely on the data.”

Going beyond the AI hype

The second day of the Webinar Tage will revolve around a subject near and dear to Verhoeven’s HR heart: technology and AI. Within it all, Verhoeven pleads for a balanced perspective. “I wrote a book in 2018 about digitalisation of the recruitment process, where I wrote about OpenAI. So the topic isn’t new, but the hype is. And I’m not a fan of making hypes, but thinking from both sides. There are many good opportunities where AI can help us make our jobs better. But on the other side, there are risks, such as data protection, biases, and discrimination.”

“So the topic isn’t new, but the hype is. And I’m not a fan of making hypes, but thinking from both sides.”

Verhoeven predicts significant changes in the AI landscape, particularly regarding training data and costs. “You can see it when you buy a totally new application. If you ask IBM, for example, to design a new AI bot for internal department, they will have to learn 1 to 2 years to get to a good level. With a ChatGPT clone that already has years of training behind it, it is much easier. If anything changes, legally, it could form a major change in the development of AI, because it won’t be as cheap anymore.”

‘AI implementation is limited in Germany’

In Germany, companies tend to be cautious when it comes to adopting new technologies like AI, according to Verhoeven. “While there’s widespread interest, actual implementation is limited, perhaps just for internal use. Germany’s strict data protection regulations play a role in this hesitation. Some companies are experimenting with internal chatbot models, but widespread application is still rare. Most corporations are in the exploratory phase, conducting workshops and evaluating potential uses.”

Busting recruitment myths 

Finally, on the third day of the Webinar Tage, Verhoeven will share his two cents on Recruitment Process Outsourcing (RPO) and data. “We’ll do some Talent Acquisition myth busting. Sometimes, we think we know exactly what’s wrong or right in recruiting. But we’ll show, with data, where in some cases it’s the polar opposite of what we think. We’ll then show you how you can bring the two worlds again. Data should be engrained in everything we do in recruiting.”

The importance of global perspectives 

As the HR industry continues to evolve and internationalise, Verhoeven stresses the need for German companies to look beyond their borders for inspiration and best practices. “Most events in Germany are focused on a very strict German point-of-view”, he notes. “But to be honest, we have to learn from various expertises.”

“It is very important to bring really high-level topics to the whole audience.”

He sees upcoming events like Webinar Tage as an important opportunity for broadening horizons. “It is very important to bring really high-level topics to the whole audience”, Verhoeven notes. “I have very high expectations. From the expertise, doing this in other countries, it could be an interesting benefit. And with my Dutch-sounding name, it’s a perfect mixture of these worlds.” 

Join the Webinar Tage for free: from Sept. 17 to 19

Due to interest from Germany and other German-speaking countries in all the new developments in the field of recruitment, Werf& and ToTalent have organised a three-day event: the Webinar Tage. From September 17 to 19 this year, several experts from the Netherlands and Germany will present their exclusive insights during various webinars. Attendance is free of charge for all participants. Sign up now!

Development of Recruitment Marketing: A Look at Trends and Challenges with Florian Grösch

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Grösch is Senior Expert Recruiting Solutions at the personnel marketing agency Raven51, which has been market-shaping in personnel recruitment in the country with its new ideas and products. “We combine the opportunities of digital change with our own innovations, personal advice and more than 51 years of experience,” says Grösch. Close cooperation with partners on an equal footing is essential. But founders of HR companies have also grown together with Raven51. René Tillman from Highjob is one of them and has been a valued partner since Highjob was founded. Mr. Tillman will hold a webinar on “Technology and Humanity: Can an HR AI be Humanistic?” on September 18th at 2:15 PM for the Webinar Tage.

From job boards to holistic recruiting

A lot has changed since Florian Grösch began working with Human Resources in 2012:

“In the last twelve years, we have realized that simply posting a job offer on job boards and waiting for applications is no longer enough. You have to put in much more effort.”

Social media is just one of the developments, along with building an employer brand. “It is not helpful to make changes in just one area while ignoring everything else,” explains Grösch. “You have to think holistically, but always have the right approach ready for the next steps.”

For Grösch, the most important point in recruiting is the question of how to address the right candidates in a way that makes them apply. Then comes the application process. It should be as lean as possible so as not to scare off talents with a poor applicant management system. All of this has become more and more individual, different candidates have different needs – it’s a challenge.

Another step involves creating a holistic brand as an employer that excites potential applicants. And finally, employers must ensure that employees stay, once the position is filled. “This is not as easy as it was twelve years ago.”

A decade ago, the shortage of skilled workers mainly affected certain positions, such as engineers and IT specialists. A decade ago, the shortage of skilled workers mainly affected certain positions like engineers and IT specialists. Now, many sectors are suffering from it — gastronomy and healthcare are among them. During the COVID-19 pandemic, many healthcare workers turned away from the profession, and workers in the catering industry did not return to their old jobs after the lockdowns ended.

Shortage of skilled workers VS unattractive employers

However, an objective shortage of skilled workers is only one side of the coin: Employers also have a lot of work to do. This applies to recruitment marketing and employer branding, as well as excessive demands or insufficient salaries and benefits for qualified employees. There is sometimes more, sometimes less room for improvement.

“Many of our customers have been working with us for years and have a basis of trust. They are grateful for our suggestions for improvement and are often happy to accept them. To do this, we look at the career page, sometimes do a test application and show in a presentation what is already good and where there is still room for improvement.” There are many areas to work on. Conveying the employer value proposition, for example, is important and the values presented must be genuine. In this way, the company convinces with the brand as an employer, but also with the overall impression of the company.

“In theory, you look at everything holistically and try to optimize everything to create an overall good process. However, it is also possible to achieve improvements in specific areas and thus generate more or better applications, depending on the resources available.” With the slogan “Next Level Recruiting” the agency wants to emphasize that every client experiences a measurable improvement in their recruiting processes, tailored to them and taking them to the next level individually.

The Future of Recruitment Marketing

Looking to the future, Grösch sees AI as a key factor:

“In Lisbon at the Web Summit last year, I could see that technical development, and with it the development of market opportunities through artificial intelligence, is accelerating almost exponentially. It is therefore becoming increasingly difficult to find the right solutions and navigate through this jungle. How artificial intelligence will establish itself in recruiting processes remains to be seen.”

The EU already drafted the AI Act  in March, which is intended to regulate the handling of AI. However, according to Grösch, it was evident at the Talent Pro in Munich in June that companies are currently waiting to see how AI develops. Due to the economically unstable situation in Germany there is currently caution, but 2025 will certainly be exciting. This is also the mindset we take into the Webinar Tage.

Webinar Tage

Florian Grösch is the chairman the second day of the Webinar Tage and will be introducing the theme of Employer Branding & Recruitment Marketing Automation (RMA).

More information

Written by: By Lydia Stöflmayr

How NVIDIA’s Talent Intelligence approach helped fuel its trillion-dollar rise

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Many people around the world have turned their attention to a company that, despite being well-known, remains somewhat mysterious to many of us. In 2023, NVIDIA became the seventh public U.S. company to surpass a $1 trillion valuation. A year later, in June 2024, NVIDIA even briefly surpassed Microsoft to become the world’s most valuable publicly traded company, reaching a market capitalisation of over $3.3 trillion for one day.

NVIDIA’s AI boom

The numbers are staggering in every way. Founded in 1993 with a focus on handling complex graphics for computer games, the company later pivoted. It came up with a different kind of chip: graphics processing units (GPUs) that can handle multiple calculations simultaneously. In other words: they’re the exact type of unit you’d need if you want to run an AI model, which simultaneously processes massive amounts of data. 

As a consequence of the AI boom, the company’s value — and number of employees — has surged, as NVIDIA has established itself as a leader in AI-capable data center chips. Amidst that boom in recognition (and value), the company’s employee count has reached approximately 29,600, up from 13,775 just four years earlier in 2020.

‘Talent Intelligence is a dynamic and essential concept’

Meta McKinney

At the forefront of its strategy, a term that has roamed around for a few years — but perhaps, similar to NVIDIA’s stature, still goes unnoticed by some. Talent Intelligence can be quite broad and ambiguous — so what does it really mean? “Its usage varies widely across industries, companies, and platforms, making it even more elusive”, says Meta McKinney, Global Talent Intelligence & Attraction Manager at NVIDIA.

“Talent Intelligence is constantly evolving and context-dependent, it’s challenging to provide a concise definition.”

“However, it aptly captures the essence of our work in this field”, she says. “We aim to understand and optimise a company’s most valuable resource: its talent. Our goal is to be smarter and more strategic in attracting, acquiring, and retaining this talent. Because Talent Intelligence is constantly evolving and context-dependent, it’s challenging to provide a concise definition. It adapts to the specific human capital challenges we face, making it a dynamic and essential concept.”

Why data is driving the TI approach 

How would McKinney, who’s set to speak at the 2024 Global Talent Intelligence Conference in September in Amsterdam, then summarise the current state of Talent Intelligence? In other words: how far are companies seeking to leverage data to make more informed talent-decisions? “Its placement and purpose can vary significantly across different companies”, she says. “However, all companies with Talent Intelligence functions recognise the need to think strategically to win the war for talent.”

“Data drives this strategic approach. In the Talent Intelligence space, we analyse the problems we face and creatively explore which data can provide insights into understanding these challenges. Based on our findings, we offer insights and recommendations to help the company move forward effectively.”

Predicting future talent needs

Nick Dowler

That sentiment is shared by her colleague, Nick Dowler, HR Specialist at NVIDIA. “With Talent Intelligence, HR professionals can finally tap into a wealth of data to make more informed decisions faster”, he says. “AI with a Talent Intelligence lens helps us predict future talent needs and spot skill gaps, allowing us to be proactive rather than reactive. This means we can iteratively design more effective workforce optimisation strategies and tailor development programs to meet the evolving demands of the business.”

It also speeds up the process of analysing data, Dowler adds. “The ability to analyse vast amounts of data in a matter of days, instead of weeks or months, means we can act swiftly and stay ahead in a competitive market. This shift not only saves time but also ensures that HR is playing a pivotal role in driving the organisation’s success.”

The key ingredients of Talent Intelligence

At Nvidia, the hiring process is meticulously designed to attract top-tier talent in a highly competitive market. “We prioritise being smart and honest in our approach”, McKinney adds. “We are driven to hire top talent that not only adds to our culture but also aspires to do their life’s work here. The rest is the secret sauce that makes us successful.”

“A winning Talent Intelligence strategy requires several key ingredients: data-driven and tested theories, meticulous and thoughtful research, reliable data, creative problem-solving, clear communication of the rationale, trusted relationships with business leaders, and the financial support and freedom to execute.”

“The labour market is evolving as we speak”, McKinney says. “To stay ahead, we must develop Talent Intelligence strategies that resonate with and remain true to NVIDIA’s culture and business needs. An approach that lacks our core values won’t succeed. Beyond this fundamental truth, a winning Talent Intelligence strategy requires several key ingredients: data-driven and tested theories, meticulous and thoughtful research, reliable data, creative problem-solving, clear communication of the rationale, trusted relationships with business leaders, and the financial support and freedom to execute.”

A journey into Talent Intelligence

McKinney’s own path to becoming a leader in Talent Intelligence is a testament to perseverance and adaptability. “In 2016, I re-entered the corporate world after a 15-year hiatus. During that time, I raised my kids while my partner traveled extensively for work. To maintain flexibility, I started my own textile business. When I was ready to dive back into the corporate world, finding opportunities was challenging due to the changes in the landscape.”

Her break came at Allstate, where Megan Buttita offered her a chance despite her lack of experience in Talent Acquisition. “I learned so much during my first year at Allstate. Despite my lack of experience in Talent Acquisition and unfamiliarity with labour market data, I had a strong desire to learn and succeed. Allstate, being a leader in this space, provided a fantastic learning environment. I am incredibly thankful for my time there and the opportunities it afforded me.”

McKinney then lead the Talent Intelligence department at Stryker. “Importantly, I shifted my focus from the U.S. to a global perspective”, she says. “Truly, I have been lucky to have many great mentors and partners help me along the way.”

Actionable insights within hours

Dowler, who has a background in AI and digital automation, emphasises the exponential increase in value creation AI brings to Talent Intelligence. “Using an AI tool to speed up a company’s ability to make data-informed decisions across internal and external functions means more time to pivot, more time to think, and more accurate decision points.

“With a lens on Talent Intelligence, this workflow translates people data into actionable insights within hours. The limitation used to be time; now, it is our imagination.”

“I can use an LLM to quickly translate my ideas into an actionable plan; I can use an LLM to write the SQL query and then translate that plan to a ML automation to execute. Then I can automate a large part of what used to be custodial work so I can do what’s important: communicate the insights gathered. With a lens on Talent Intelligence, this workflow translates people data into actionable insights within hours. The limitation used to be time; now, it is our imagination.”

‘Every location is unique’

NVIDIA’s mission has very much become a global one. With more than 50 offices worldwide, how do talent acquisition — or intelligence — approaches vary? “Every location where we have offices is unique, with its own distinct economics, politics, customs, and daily life structures”, McKinney says. 

“In Talent Intelligence, it’s crucial to grasp nuances, leverage local expertise, and craft talent strategies that resonate.”

“These differences require a customised approach to understanding and working within each region. Attracting, engaging, and hiring talent varies from place to place, but NVIDIA serves as the common thread uniting our global efforts. In Talent Intelligence, it’s crucial to grasp these nuances, leverage local expertise, and craft talent strategies that resonate. Ultimately, it’s NVIDIA and our business leaders who drive the needs for success, and these needs are what guide our efforts.”

‘In Talent Intelligence, change is a constant’

Within the field of Talent Intelligence, the onus has very much been on Talent Intelligence Collective to help grow the field. “This field is brimming with professionals who are building highly successful Talent Intelligence functions tailored to their companies’ needs”, McKinney says. “Toby [Culshaw] is a prime example. He’s literally written the book on the subject and achieved great success at both Philips and Amazon.”

‘The best way to predict the future of Talent Intelligence is to create it’: a slight variation to Peter Drucker’s quote but it works.

“This space is filled with talented, creative, and thoughtful individuals. Success in the Talent Intelligence field is about adapting to changes and never getting too comfortable because change is the only constant. ‘The best way to predict the future of Talent Intelligence is to create it’: a slight variation to Peter Drucker’s quote but it works. The future depends on us remaining relevant and essential to the business.”

Join the conversation at the Global Talent Intelligence Conference

Both McKinney and Dowler will be sharing their insights at the upcoming Global Talent Intelligence Conference held in Amsterdam from September 23 to September 25. This event is a prime opportunity for professionals to delve deeper into the world of Talent Intelligence and explore how data-driven strategies are reshaping the future of talent management.

For those interested in staying ahead in the competitive talent landscape, this conference is a must-attend. Sign up now to gain invaluable insights from leading experts in the field, including NVIDIA’s McKinney and Dowler, and discover how Talent Intelligence can revolutionise your organisation’s approach to human capital management.

Kevin Wheeler: ‘I dare say that the entire world currently only has 5 or 6 true talent leaders.’

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Bringing recruitment to a higher level has been one of Kevin Wheeler’s main ambitions for years. But has he succeeded? Not really, he acknowledges in a podcast recorded during the most recent edition of Werf& Live, where he was also one of the speakers. ‘Most Talent Acquisition Leaders I know are still quite transactional. They do more or less the same as those who work for them. People who truly think strategically: what is happening in the labour market? What skills will we need tomorrow? And how do we apply technology to that? I dare say there are only 5 or 6 worldwide.’

International recruitment guru Wheeler (Future of Talent Institute) spoke in the podcast with Bas van de Haterd (Digitaal-Werven), with whom he co-authored a book last year, Talent Acquisition Excellence, on how to improve recruitment. It started as a joint ‘pandemic project,’ Van de Haterd explained, ‘because we were both bored and couldn’t attend events.’ However, the result was released long after COVID-19 had faded from the headlines. But that does not make it any less relevant, emphasizes the author.

‘We discovered that we fundamentally disagree on a few things.’

‘What I enjoyed about our collaboration: we had Zoom sessions every week about the book, and we discovered that we fundamentally disagreed on a few things. But because we respect each other, it was not: I am right, and you are not, but we explored: under what circumstances could you be right and I not? As a result, the book does not prescribe this is how you should approach Talent Acquisition, but under these circumstances, this approach works better, and under these circumstances, this approach. There is not just one way to be excellent; it depends on the circumstances.’

Not Just Another Book

You might expect this to be another book from someone as seasoned as Kevin Wheeler. But that turns out not to be the case. He had previously written about corporate learning and once co-authored a book on screening and assessment with Charles Handler. However, this is the first book in which he (with Van de Haterd) sets out his vision of making recruitment more effective. For those who know him a bit, technology and Recruitment Process Automation naturally play a significant role in this. ‘I strongly believe that RPOs can hire more qualified recruiters than most organizations.’

Kevin Wheeler during his appearance at Werf& Live.

It was one of the points where they often disagreed during the writing, adds Van de Haterd. Although, ultimately, the differences in insight were not that great. ‘I gradually learned that an RPO here in Europe is very different than in America. In the United States, as an RPO party, you also bring your technology; here, you often have to work with the ATS that the company has already purchased. However, you will lose 40% of your candidates because they have to create an application via Taleo or Workday before they can apply. Is that still an RPO then?’

‘If your cake is not fully baked, you can get sick from it.’

He says he recently was at a company where the RPO party was not even allowed to make any changes to the organization’s careers site. Then it becomes challenging to take full responsibility for the recruitment process, he states. ‘I often compare it to baking. Raw cookie dough is delicious, and a well-baked cake is delightful. But if it is not fully baked, you can get sick. We often still approach our recruitment process half-baked at the moment.’

No Pioneers

Where in the world are the pioneers in Talent Acquisition to be found? ‘No region is leading,’ says Wheeler. ‘Most TA is rather mediocre. Australia is a country that is quite professional because many people make a career out of it and do not just see it as a stepping stone to a more serious career, as is often the case in the US. I think the Netherlands is also more professional in recruitment.’

Kevin Wheeler: ‘I think the Netherlands is also on the more professional side of recruitment.’

He says it is also one of the reasons he is such a fan of RPO. ‘Only then can you allocate enough of a budget for technology because RPO parties see technology as an investment, not a cost. That can help them reduce the cost-per-hire and be more effective.’ He emphasises that many organizations also underestimate the costs of their internal recruitment department. ‘They only look at the costs to hire someone but forget the fixed salaries of the people doing it, the overhead, and the costs of good technology.’

‘As recruiters, we often think we understand people. But we are not trained psychologists.’

Because that is something they both agree on: technology can eventually take over up to 90% of the work in recruitment. ‘Technology is one of the most important things to help people perform better,’ says Van de Haterd. ‘As recruiters, we often think we understand people. But we are not trained psychologists. And so we understand very little about people outside of our own experience. We don’t know people.’ Technology is also far from perfect in this regard, he admits. ‘But – exceptions aside – much better than most recruiters.’

Want to know more?

Listen to the entire podcast here:

More podcasts

This was one of nearly ten podcasts recorded live during Werf& Live. Listen to them all here.

What We Can Learn From Lidl International in the Field of Employer Branding

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At last year’s World Employer Branding Day, which attracted over 700 attendees, Catherine Gouw was extensively highlighted. The German, until the end of last year, Head of Employer Branding at Lidl International, received, among other accolades, the distinction of Global Employer Brand Leader of the Year at that significant international congress, which revisits Amsterdam in October this year. This is a beautiful honorary title. What makes her so good? And what can we learn from her? An interview.

> What is your motivation regarding Employer Branding?

‘From my perspective, employer branding is all about people. On the one hand, we want to appear attractive to relevant target groups as an employer to inspire them to join us. On the other hand, we want to convince the people already working for us that it was the right decision for them in the long term. The focus on people is the personal motivator for me in employer branding – it’s not just that we do our work for people, but especially the collaboration with so many great people that stimulates me every day to be even more creative and authentic in my work.'”

>How have you viewed the evolution of employer branding since you started in this field?

‘When I started with employer branding in 2010, the subject’s relevance was nowhere near as significant as it is now. The focus has always been the same – it has always been about people. Due to the increased importance of the subject, a wonderful global community has formed, allowing you to constantly question yourself in your work, utilize synergies, and be inspired by other great projects to achieve the best possible results for your employer.'”

>You have KPIs to measure employer attractiveness. How does that work?

‘Data should always come first – after all, all creative ideas are useless if we don’t know what to focus on. Therefore, it’s important to have relevant key figures to use this data, for example, to deduce what’s important for future campaigns or to what extent you should also take the internal perspective into account.'”

”Our Employer Branding Survey has been very helpful in this regard, as firstly, we examined the relevance of individual topics internally and externally, and secondly, we found out how Lidl is perceived as an employer in these areas. Some topics that may have been relevant to us beforehand in communication were no longer relevant after presenting the results. Or vice versa, because we saw the comparison between aspiration and reality in black and white for the first time.”

> What are you most proud of in Lidl’s employer branding?

‘Since 2020, we have developed and implemented many exciting topics and projects together in more than 30 countries where Lidl is established. It all started with the rollout of the international employer brand design – a very emotional topic for us, as in the past, we tended to use cooler, almost distant colours. With the implementation, we have not only focused on accessibility, tangibility, and diversity, but we have finally authentically brought them to life in a bright world of colours and images.’

“Furthermore, since 2022, we have been able to measure the attractiveness of Lidl as an employer globally through a 360° data-driven employer branding approach – this success was recognized, among others, with a second place at the Trendence Awards 2023 in Berlin and the Employer Brand Management Awards 2023 in London.”

> Has your work had any additional effect on the perception of Lidl?

”We have also succeeded in communicating our company’s international character more strongly outwardly, thus further opening the ‘black box’ around Lidl. For instance, we achieved this by establishing the LinkedIn profile Lidl International, as well as through our international careers site.”

“These results and the associated internal positioning at the level of the Board of Directors have elevated the topic of employer branding to a very high level, both structurally and globally, and it is now an overarching strategic issue. However, we must not forget that this would not have been possible without a fantastic international employer brand & recruitment community – this community makes us better every day.”

> On World EB Day 2023, you advocated not talking about the employer brand but only about the brand. Why?

“As a B2C retailer, we have different target groups that are closely interconnected – customers are always potential employees for us, and potential and current employees are ideally always customers. To harness these synergies holistically within the company, silos need to be broken down to implement a successful One Brand approach. As a first step, we are trying to align the calculation principles of our KPIs with those of the customer perspective.”

“My personal goal is that in the future, everyone in the organization is aware of their impact on the brand.”

“My personal goal is that in the future, everyone in the organization is aware of their impact on the brand. Store employees especially need to understand what it’s about and what effects can occur, as they have direct contact with the customer. Or, from an HR perspective, direct contact with a potential employee. This means they should always consider one brand’s different perspectives.”

The interview appeared earlier in Kantar.

More information?

Are you interested in learning more? From October 9th to 11th, Amsterdam will once again host the grand World Employer Branding Day. This year, the event will feature cases from companies such as McKinsey, Amazon, Coca-Cola, DHL Group, Merlin Entertainment, PwC, and McCain. Use the promo code ‘werf’ to receive a €100 discount per person.

Nominate someone yourself?

Do you want to nominate someone for this year’s Employer Brand Leader of the Year award? You can! Until September 27th, you can nominate someone for the prestigious Indeed International Employer Branding Summit on October 10th. Who do you think deserves this award this year?”

Nominate now

Also, read

‘Essentially, I am advocating for imperialism of Talent Intelligence’

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Ben Zweig is the CEO of Revelio Labs, a workforce intelligence company that leverages the latest advances in AI research to create a universal HR database from public sources. Revelio Labs’ mission is to provide unique insights and uncover trends in Human Capital to empowering businesses and investors.

They index hundreds of millions of public employment records. According to Revelio Labs, their ‘universal HR database’ allows them to understand the workforce dynamics of any company. Revelio Labs’ customers include investors, corporate strategists, HR teams, and governments.

Founder Zweig works in New York, where he also teaches courses on Data Science and The Future of Work at NYU Stern. He will be a keynote speaker at the second Talent Intelligence Conference. Since one of his courses is ‘Data Bootcamp’, we can trust him to deliver the goods in ultra record time, NY-style.

Talking by Teams from his office in New York, Ben tells how the focus on workforce analytics is important, ‘because we believe organizations and people suffer from a lack of understanding of the world’s talent. Workforce data, unlike financial data, lacks the standardization necessary to develop sophisticated insights. Yet labor markets are the largest and most important markets in the world.’

Enter Revelio Labs, that aims for a more efficient, transparent and scientific workforce market, using teams of data scientist, economists and engineers.

But to understand how Ben Zweig uses Talent Intelligence at his company, he tells first about the beginning of the company. ‘I started the company back in 2018 and it’s a Talent Intelligence company. I mean, I sort of started this before even knowing that Talent Intelligence was a term.’

‘I used to run a workforce analytics group at IBM and really thought that the analyses we were doing were interesting, but very limited. Limited because we didnt really have any outside information. We always analyzed internal IBM data and we just had no context. We didn’t have any ability to get strategic and look at how we were differentiated.’

‘So I started Revelio Labs with the idea of bringing external data and benchmarking to the HR space. It turns out that was happening in parallel by other people too: Talent Intelligence in my mind is about bringing external data into HR and into the business.’ TI is progressing really fast, says Zweig, which he finds really very exciting.

‘I think I got introduced to The Talent Intelligence Collective and the podcast by Alison Ettridge and Toby Culshaw maybe two years ago, two to three. At that point, it really clicked. Wow, here’s groups within companies that are on the way to, you know, doing things the way that I had hoped that things would evolve.’

‘And I was trying to  nudge things in that direction from my perspective. For a while I really thought  the mission of Revelio was to kind of bring people analytics function to more of this external view. I realized there’s this other function that’s much more like philosophically aligned and hungry for data and really thinks in a different way.’

‘In HR, there’s a lot of organizational psychologists, and that’s sort of the mentality that permeates this kind of function. I came into that space differently: I’m a labor economist.’

‘So I had done research in labor economics. As a labor economist, I really think a little bit differently. We think more about data, more about the external market and more about the context and the applications of using data for this in a more rigorous way. The Talent Intelligence community is more like labor economists  mentally than like organizational psychologists. As a discipline, they’re very aligned to how I see the world.’

Any essential difference between labor economics and organizational psychology?

‘Talent intelligence is basically labor economics. It’s very, very similar. The data is the same, the questions are very similar, the mentality is the same. TalentIintelligence could get renamed the labor economics team…. (laughs) They just don’t know it yet.’

So what kind of questions do you answer with your company? What kind of questions do you help your customers with?

‘The questions are really varied, whereas the data set is really the same. After all, we think of what we do as like primarily constructing this universal HR database. Massive data sets of like profiles, postings, sentiment ratings, salaries, freelance platforms, layoff notices and immigration files. Anything and everything.’

‘We really want to centralize this database, curate, enrich it and make it like really easy to navigate and pull for whatever purposes. Once we have the database, the way customers use it is up to them. Most of the time they use the base to analyze companies. Where are there spikes in the attrition rates of key roles at companies? You know, like what’s happening at this company? What’s the composition of their workforce? What are the markets they’re in? Understanding companies and their competitors. So that, for instance, if you want to analyze   Java developers in Bangalore, you can have a really deep, thorough analysis because it all comes from the same data.

How do you ensure the quality of the data? They are not recorded in the same way from country to company.

Yes, workforce data is a mess. Last year I talked at the conference about all the possible problems you have with the underlying raw data. And the processing and enrichment you need to do, to get the data to be actually useful. For example: using LinkedIn profiles as a source is problematic because every person just writes in whatever they want, free text. There’s different conventions for titles, there’s different languages, company names, seniority levels, different skills. Tons and tons problems. The messiest data you can imagine. Obviously, a lot of work.’

‘But as a technology provider this is one of the justifications for our existence: getting a handle on this dat. We at Revelio Labs want to centralize that effort so that everybody can benefit. Let’s say we have a model to detect fake users, that might be like a six month project. But then it’s global, and it’s general. It would be crazy for every company to take on this six month project to solve one problem when there are 100 other problems to solve. We have a team of 60 fulltime data scientists and engineers who are just solving this kind of problems.’

So you volunteer your company to do this for the rest of the world. A monopoly for your platform.

‘90% of data analysis is cleaning data, and the other 10% is complaining about cleaning data. Somebody has got to do the cleaning process, and nobody really wants to. I think my team is excited by it, just because they’re really challenging problems. And the data are difficult to scale. So  we really want to be kind of like a Bloomberg-terminal.   Bloomberg takes in all this financial data and does the curation. At the end of the day, everyone in finance just has all this clean, nice, neat data at their fingertips, to do their day job.

And Bloomberg has a monopoly, gets very, very rich.

‘That would be a nice outcome for everybody, there’s a lot of scalability in that business model. But an important goal is also to mature the field. I’d love to see a world where everyone in HR just   does their job with data at their fingertips.’

New trends you want to talk about at the conference?

‘To go beyond geography or market level analysis, we need to do more strategic benchmarking, to support strategic workforce planning. And that’s what you really find more in competitive benchmarking.’

‘Another thing would be making a kind of tools and applications to help recruiters help themselves. So you get the Talent Intelligence function on a lower level in the organization. Not just TA-directors, also recruiters and sourcers. Granular actionable workforce insights for more people in the organization. Revelio Lab’s mission should be not only solving a problem, but also contributing to broader industry or societal progress. For a startup in this field developing a product with a clear, mission-driven purpose, it can differentiate you in a crowded market.’

‘Essentially, I am advocating for imperialism of Talent Intelligence. I’m really advocating for expanding the scope of TI to get both broader, you know, in terms of planning and, and deeper in terms of helping recruiters. Maybe you’re going to be stepping on people’s toes. Challenges are: it’s more work to take on and it’s just going to require more resources and time. Another challenge is organizational friction. Maybe you’d be getting in the way of computer and people analytics and  other groups that consider this their turf.’

Join us at the Talent Intelligence Conference 2024!

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Robindro Ullah: ‘Talent Intelligence is no magic bullet; it creates transparency’

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Robindro Ullah has received his fair share of awards. He has been recognised as the German HR Innovator of the Year on three separate occasions. Additionally, he has been awarded the HR Excellence Award three times, and his recruitment efforts in China earned him the German Online Communication Award. Over the past three years, Ullah has authored several books. His first, ‘Praxishandbuch Recruiting’ is the foremost comprehensive guide on talent acquisition in Germany. With over a decade of experience in recruiting, his career highlights include managing more than 1,400 national hires annually at Deutsche Bahn as Head of Recruitment for the South Region. 

In 2018 he started working for Trendence Institut, which is renowned for developing high-quality studies, statistics and trends on the German labour market for over 20 years.

He later took on an international role at VOITH, focusing on key markets such as China and Brazil. As Head of Employer Branding and HR Communication Global, he successfully implemented a global application tracking system and restructured the company’s recruitment organisation. In 2018 he started working for Trendence Institut, which is renowned for developing high-quality studies, statistics and trends on the German labour market for over 20 years.

‘Talent Intelligence creates transparency’

Whether active as the head of Recruitment at Deutsche Bahn or in his current role at Trendence, Ullah has seen both the labour market and the way the world approaches recruitment change rapidly. In the past couple of years, more organisations have adopted data-driven approaches, in a way to differentiate between good and bad hires. In one term: Talent Intelligence. 

“For me personally, Talent Intelligence means to make existing data usable in such a way that relevant decisions can be made in the area of talent but also in the business”, Ullah says. “This can be employee data, skills data, external data sources, et cetera. There is much more to data than companies currently realise, especially in the HR area. Nevertheless, it is not a magic bullet. It creates transparency and reduces bad decisions.”

‘Power of data is not yet recognised’

But we’re at the onset of Talent Intelligence. While Fortune 500 companies may have grasped the idea, Ullah says that in his own labour market, the topic still stands at the very beginning. “If I may speak for the German market, I see that the power of data has not yet been recognised here. Recruiting Analytics is being approached step by step, but Talent Intelligence is much more. Internationally, I have not yet come across so many top examples.”

“I have the impression that in Asia and the USA, the topic is thought about much more holistically than we do.”

With experience all over the globe, does Ullah see any differences in the way Talent Intelligence is approached? “From my point of view, the non-European market is more advanced than what we see here”, he says. “I have the impression that in Asia and the USA, the topic is thought about much more holistically than we do. In particular, they think more in terms of advanced AI analysis and technology. The approaches are not all directly and easily transferable due to the GDPR and the way data is handled in Germany.”

Data is everywhere

To successfully formulate a ‘winning approach’ within the boundaries of the current European labour market, requires a different approach, Ullah says. “If we limit Talent Intelligence to the area of talent acquisition and retention, an essential step is to look at the market from different perspectives, in the form of data. Analysis is one thing, but understanding that each market player — such as target audience, other companies and multipliers — all have their own data sets that tell its own story, is another.”

“What also helps in the current job market is a data-based analysis of the potential for re-entry and a detailed description.”

“They may also be mutually reinforcing”, Ullah observes. “It makes a difference whether I advertise a vacancy in parallel to my competitors or whether I advertise it acyclically. What also helps in the current job market is a data-based analysis of the potential for re-entry and a detailed description.”

‘TI will influence business decisions’

So, where does Ullah see it all headed? Will an approach similar to Talent Intelligence trickle down to many of the continent’s SME’s — or will it stay somewhat niche? “From the perspective of the German market, we still do not even use 1% of the potential”, Ullah says. 

“That is why I believe that Talent Intelligence’s career has just begun.”

“We have not yet sufficiently understood that talent will be the most scarce resource our companies will have. Whether we are successful or not will almost exclusively depend on this factor: do we manage to attract and retain people? That is why I believe that Talent Intelligence’s career has just begun. TI will influence not only HR decisions, but also business decisions in the future.”

Join the Talent Intelligence Conference 2024

Due to the success of our first conference, we are excited to announce that we will be organising the Talent Intelligence Conference once again in 2024. The conference spans from 23-25 September in Amsterdam. We invite you to join us as we continue to explore and advance in this fast-growing discipline. Our goal is to reconnect over 200 professionals from around the world again. Register here.

 

How Volvo Cars turned Talent Intelligence into a scientific investigator

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Talent Intelligence is not just about data-driven work. ‘To me, it’s much more about the research side that makes it interesting’, stresses Megan Reif, an American political scientist living in Sweden who worked on projects around elections in Oman, Pakistan and Algeria, among others, before eventually getting into recruitment. She is now responsible at Volvo Cars for the new Talent Intelligence function, which provides research to inform strategic decisions around talent.

‘To me, it’s much more about the research side that makes it interesting’, stresses Megan Reif, a US political scientist who worked on projects around elections in Oman, Pakistan and Algeria, among others, before eventually getting into recruitment. She is now responsible at Volvo Cars for the new Talent Intelligence function, for which she coordinates all decisions around talent.

> How has Talent Intelligence grown into a function at Volvo?

‘At Volvo Cars we set up a now fairly mature Talent Intelligence function from scratch in one year. Despite being a relative newbie in this field, I think there are a few things about my unusual combination of my education in social sciences and personal experience that will hopefully allow me to add a bit of value.’

‘Before I started working on this topic, I supported the user experience design team as a recruiter for 18 months. I helped that team hire 65 senior user experience managers, researchers, designers and writers. I was already interested in research methodology, research interfaces and presenting data, but what I learned from UX research and design principles applies directly to setting up a TI function with a ‘data-as-a-product’ design approach and a focus on the importance of data visualisation and packaging insights.’

> What do you mean by this?

‘Applying social science research principles, combined with being an amateur in different fields, allowed me to be very creative in thinking about how to build a professional function. By starting out very messy, saying yes to many ad hoc requests and delivering results that don’t meet anyone’s vision. I think my research background helped me after that to find ways to put all the messy data together and give it credibility by being transparent about its limitations and supplementing it with qualitative research.’

‘What’s so exciting about the field of Talent Intelligence: it’s new, it’s not yet fully defined.’

‘That is also what is so exciting about the field of Talent Intelligence: it is new, it is not yet fully defined. The data is still very messy. There are many vendors, but there is no one vendor that can provide all the answers for all the different types of roles and locations that are important in a production environment. So that’s where my background comes in handy, as a political scientist and in working with qualitative and quantitative sources in and across places where data is scarce, such as the Middle East, South Asia and North Africa.’

> Why is this topic so important to Volvo Cars?

‘It is like any other manufacturing company going through a transition. Volvo Cars was founded in Gothenburg in 1927 and now has more than 43,500 employees in 34 countries. We have always been data-driven. When Volvo launched the seat belt, many in the industry were not happy about it. But the data on saving lives could not be ignored. Later, Volvo Cars did the same with technology that reduced emissions. You could say we have always used research and evidence to do the right thing, which is: make sure the product is safe for both the user and the environment.’

‘Everyone in this company, from the factory floor to the senior vice president, is a unicorn in one way or another.’

‘Now we are in the process of digital transformation. Unlike many pure tech companies with Talent Intelligence functions, we deal with hardware manufacturing, safety issues, battery technology, workers, finance and loans, and countless other skill areas. What I have learned is that everyone in the company, from the factory floor to the senior vice president, is a unicorn in one way or another. And you need data to find out where someone’s superpowers are and then design a strategy to know specifically how to attract them.’

> Because?

‘Volvo Cars was the first of the traditional carmakers to announce its move from combustion and hybrid vehicles to an all-electric product range by 2030 and move to a fully online direct-to-customer sales model and innovative service model. This requires bringing in a huge talent pool that was not there before. From finance to customer service, customer experience and digital design.’

‘Volvo is a manufacturing company that brings in a lot of talent from other industries. That means we need to understand where that talent is and help the different recruitment managers plan for the implications: that we won’t just find these talents in Sweden and our traditional locations.’

> How do you approach that?

‘By looking at external talent markets and seeing where we need specific skills, we see that sometimes the profile differs from what we have within the company. Often, workers are increasingly skilled, working with robots and automation, and many of them are retraining, so a good talent intelligence function will, in the ideal world, work together with people analytics and workforce planning, which is what we are starting to do now, to find out what skills we have in house – and not rely on assumptions about career paths and degrees.’

‘Because education is free in Sweden, many recruiters don’t realise that people abroad without a master’s can still have great skills.’

‘In Sweden, education is free, so many people have a master’s degree, which may mean that some recruiters do not realise that people with similar skills educated abroad may not have a master’s degree, but still have the skills and experience, or are self-taught. So the data on what skills other companies are hiring and where, helps us to question those and related assumptions, for example in relation to diversity.’

> Can you give an example of this?

‘For example, when I presented data on locations for software development talent, many were surprised to learn that more women study STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) and work in technical roles in the Middle East and North Africa and Romania than in North America, most of Europe and Australia. If you start understanding this, recruiters are more likely to look more carefully at candidates from different backgrounds.’

‘We are looking all over the world for talent pools in new or existing locations.’

‘We are now bringing technical talent from around the world to Gothenburg, Stockholm and Lund in Sweden. But we are also looking for talent pools in new or existing locations around the world. For example, we have opened a tech hub in Poland – the first project to which I have contributed some analysis – we have a tech hub in Bangalore, and we have just announced our tech hub in Singapore, which attracts a wide range of talent from many of the world’s regions and has some of the highest percentages of women and other leaders in technology from different backgrounds.’

> How does your experience in Pakistan and Algeria help with this?

‘What I like about academic research is challenging preconceptions about the world. In Pakistan and Algeria, I had taught statistics and worked with IT and technical people. In Pakistan, I lived with 27 women studying to be software developers and aerospace engineers studying at Pakistan’s version of NASA. I got to know these capable women very well; powerful programmers, from countries where the general perception is that they are oppressed. Yet relatively more women work as software developers there than in Sweden or many other European countries.’

‘If you want to work on diversity, you should join talent acquisition.’

‘When I was first considering leaving academia, my employer said to me: Megan, if you want to work on diversity, if you want to change the image we have in Sweden of people from parts of the world who you know are great people, then you should go and work in talent acquisition. So, almost six years later, here I am, in Talent Intelligence. Of course, I always present my data objectively, but I also try to discover blind spots and present contextual data with information about markets that people might not ask about, to challenge assumptions.’

> Is TI substantially different for Volvo Cars than for a software company?

‘When I started recruiting in 2017, one of my first assignments was to find a production manager for frozen fish. I quickly noticed then that it is easier to find data on software or technical candidates than on candidates who can handle frozen fish production. As a tech recruiter, you usually have a higher status. But I learned that data on skilled production talent is much harder to find, so you have to be much more creative here with data sources, approach methods and recruitment strategies.’

‘I quickly noticed that you find data on technical candidates faster than on experts in frozen fish.’

‘I can deliver a talent intelligence analysis for technical talent quite quickly these days, but I really need weeks to dive into detail and with alternative sources to find out potential talent pools with more complex talent profiles, including qualitative interviews. This is also why I say we need a ‘research informed’ rather than just a data-driven approach to business decisions. I find the production side of talent intelligence the most exciting, and also the most challenging.’

> And what does that produce?

‘I’ll give an example. Volvo Car’s decision to open a new gigafactory in Slovakia fell long before my position existed. In late 2021, early 2022, I was asked to help with background research for the go-to-market strategy there. Slovakia has the highest number of automotive workers per capita in the world, but we soon realised that we needed different ways to reach these talents than we would use in Sweden.’

‘Even senior people such as production managers are rarely on LinkedIn in Slovakia.’

‘At the time, we focused on a strategy of bringing a few people from Sweden, who were going to build a team with local talent. That’s where we learned then that in Slovakia you have to go a bit old-fashioned to reach people. Even senior people like production managers there are rarely on LinkedIn, let alone talent familiar with working in the highly complex and automated environment of car factories. By looking at where people are and where they travel to, we ended up with more old-school approach strategies like billboards, along with local job boards.’

> How did you find that out?

‘I used Google Scholar and Research Gate to find studies on the Slovak housing market, commuting patterns and migration. I conducted interviews with a number of people locally, compared other companies’ strategies – all this kind of thing, everything to feel I had a complete picture. In Slovakia, the car industry is mainly in the west, while many people have migrated from the east or commute as much as 3-4 hours during the week. They like to be close to their families and to the mountains, so our new location is a great opportunity for them to build their careers in their home region.’

‘It is very difficult to get someone to move from one part of the country to another, even if it is only a 4-hour drive.’

‘I also want to point out another assumption that this example illustrates – in industrialised Western European countries, we tend to assume that people in lower-income countries are just willing to go anywhere for a job. And that’s really not the case. It is very difficult to get someone to move from one part of the country to another, even if it is only a four-hour drive, just as it is difficult to get someone to move from Stockholm to Gothenburg.’

How Undutchables bridges the gap between talent and businesses in the Netherlands

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The Undutchables philosophy

At the heart of Undutchables‘ philosophy lies the belief that diversity and multiculturalism are assets to both individuals and businesses. The company recognises that the Netherlands is an attractive destination for a wide range of professionals, whether they hail from within Europe or beyond. Their mission is two-fold: to assist Dutch companies in their international ventures and to welcome and support candidates who are making the Netherlands their new home.

‘With my own experience as an expat across multiple continents, we pretty much sell what I am.’

‘We’ve done this for 27 years now’, Van Houdenhoven-Collard says in an interview. ‘We work with a team of international recruiters. With my own experience as an expat across multiple continents, we pretty much sell what I am. It Is all about ensuring a bridge exists between organisations entering foreign markets, by ensuring they can communicate effectively. Not only in terms of language, but also cultural understanding.’

Globetrotters 

Emmanuele van Houdenhoven-Collard’s journey to Undutchables is a testament to the agency’s own diverse and inclusive nature. Born in the region of Dordogne, France, her educational background includes studies in law, Political Sciences at the University of Bordeaux. Her career, however, has been a globetrotting adventure, with stops in The United Kingdom, Mexico and the United States. 

Van Houdenhoven-Collard returned to the Netherlands in 2015. ‘The agency increasingly encountered multilingual candidates who, while proficient in English, often had it as their second or third language. My own experiences as an expatriate in the United States ended up providing me with invaluable insights into the challenges faced by many of Undutchables’ candidates. These professionals were no strangers to the global stage, having traversed the world in their careers.’

Life in a strange country

But Van Houdenhoven-Collard’s Undutchables career started by accident. ‘When I came back to the Netherlands, it was tough for me to find a good job. That was strange to me. I had a great profile, spoke four languages — but couldn’t find a job that suited me. So I approached Undutchables to discuss the difficulties I was facing in finding a job and try to better understand the current Dutch recruitment market. I got to speak to Nick van der Dussen, the company’s General Manager, and we had a lovely conversation about a variety of topics. The next day, I was offered an intake and got to start the recruitment process with Undutchables.’

‘As an expat, it constantly feels as though you need to sell yourself.’

It turns out Van Houdenhoven-Collard and Undutchables were a fit in more ways than one. ‘As an expat, it constantly feels as though you need to sell yourself. That can be quite a haunting task when you’re in a strange country. So I saw the real need for a company to step in and help them. To go the extra mile for them, to find them the right opportunity to further their career.’

Understanding the market

Van Houdenhoven-Collard’s background uniquely positions her to understand the needs of businesses seeking to establish themselves internationally. ‘I work closely with companies all around the world, notably in Germany, France, and even in China, helping them recruit talent that not only speaks the language but also comprehends the local culture. That in itself is an invaluable asset when doing business in foreign markets.’

Understanding the intricacies of the Dutch labour market is a critical aspect of Undutchables’ work. ‘There’s plenty of markets out there, like in France, where you generally don’t give out multiple contracts before it becomes a permanent deal. Companies in The Netherlands have a tendency to give out two or three temporary contracts before it becomes a permanent contract. That’s important for everyone, both job seekers and employers, to be fully aware of. Such nuances can be bewildering for those unfamiliar with Dutch employment practices.’

Finding a middle ground

Embracing cultural diversity is a central pillar of Undutchables’ philosophy. ‘It recognises that differing backgrounds and experiences enrich the workplace and foster open-mindedness in problem-solving. If everything is done in a transparent way, then no negative surprises occur. One notable trend, for example, is the preference among junior professionals for flexible work arrangements.’

‘Adapting to changes is crucial for international candidates and companies looking to integrate into the Dutch job market.’

‘The desire for a four-day workweek and the option to work from home 2-3 days a week is becoming increasingly important for this particular target group. Adapting to these changes is crucial for international candidates and companies looking to integrate into the Dutch job market. However, it can be challenging for candidates when companies have policies that lean towards a 100% in-office presence. Finding a middle ground becomes essential.’

Knowing the candidate’s core values

One of Undutchables’ strengths lies in its long-standing relationships with client companies. ‘We have clients who have used our services since the very beginnings of Undutchables in 1996, because we really know what they’re all about. We know their core values. That in itself is such a stark contrast compared to just sourcing for a candidate.’

‘Having that insight allows us to provide valuable information to both candidates and companies, facilitating mutual understanding and successful integration.’

Being realistic and acknowledging that candidates come from diverse backgrounds — and thus may have varying long-term plans — is part of the recruiting formula. ‘Some might view it as a stopgap solution for a few years, while others are looking to settle long-term. Having that insight allows us to provide valuable information to both candidates and companies, facilitating mutual understanding and successful integration.’

Collaborations with experts

In general, the Dutch labour market hasn’t been particularly easy to navigate. Van Houdenhoven-Collard notes the growing demand for talent in the Netherlands, with increasing numbers of candidates seeking opportunities in the country. ‘We pretty much experience a non-stop flow of new candidates and vacancies. But we need to ensure they’re all aware of what makes for a successful integration within the Dutch workforce.’

‘That’s why we constantly look for collaborations with experts in their fields, in order to share knowledge to our clients and network at large through regular webinars that are open to everyone.’ The next one, for example, will be the closing session for our 2023 series on November 17 in Amsterdam. The topic is creating a company culture that everyone feels connected to.’

‘We’re ready and ambitious’

Looking further ahead, Van Houdenhoven-Collard envisions continued growth for Undutchables. Since her arrival, she has seen the company expanding its team from 38 to around 44 employees in four years. ‘We’ve done this for 27 years — and it feels like we will keep growing for many years to come. With the continued influx of multilingual talent from all over the world who continue to find their way to the Netherlands, there’s plenty of challenges ahead. But we’re ready. We’re ambitious. We want to continue to play a pivotal role in connecting talent with opportunity. That’s what it’s all about.’

The four ways Google uses Talent Intelligence for recruiting 

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The way Talent Intelligence is defined is a big part of just how it can be of benefit to any organisation. So how would Harvard-graduate Joris Schoonis, Managing Director of Google Cloud Benelux summarise what it can do for his organisation? “Talent Intelligence is an influencing force on workforce and people strategies”, he says. 

“With Talent Intelligence, we consider it just as important to analyse internal data as it is to analyse external data.”

“It combines both qualitative and quantitative data to make sure that a company is making people decisions on a strong foundation of insights. With Talent Intelligence, we consider it just as important to analyse internal data as it is to analyse external data. As companies look out at the external environment, they need to have a strong grasp of their own internal composition and metrics in order to ensure they are able to effectively operate and make data-driven decisions.”

Nuances of the market

In many labour markets across the world, understanding the nuances is a big part of any success. “We would consider using Talent Intelligence for recruiting in the Benelux just as we would use it to make sure we understand the nuances of any market we operate in”, Schoonis says. Typically, he sees four ways in which Google uses Talent Intelligence to support the recruiting and organisational goals. “These four elements where Talent Intelligence can support us ensure we’re educated on the market, have realistic expectations of what can be achieved and ensure we’re advising our business on the people aspects they need to be aware of.”

  1. Talent Research and Analysis: What is happening in the market and what trends are we seeing? Will this have an impact on the way we engage with candidates and their expectations of an employer?
  2. Site Strategy and Assessment: Does it make sense to grow our tech teams in this location? Do we have the relevant talent pools to sustainably grow our organisation?
  3. Competitive Intelligence: What information and trends are we seeing in peers and in other industries that inform our overall talent strategy in the market?
  4. Diversity, Equity and Inclusion: Will investing and recruiting in this market support our ambitions to build representative talent pipelines and build an inclusive company?

Resilience through insights

The world of Talent Acquisition has, by all means, been a turbulent world. In lieu of the COVID-19 crisis, the subsequent trends of remote workforces, The Great Resignation, the Quiet Quitting phenomenon and now the emphasis towards retention. “The previous few years have seen a huge amount of change for talent strategies and the ways in which companies engage with employees”, Schoonis says. 

“When used correctly, Talent Intelligence can help make companies more agile, adaptable and precise with their recruiting efforts and employee strategies.”

“I hope in 5 years’ time we can look back on this period and see how Talent Intelligence actually provided businesses with resilience and success by equipping them with insights to navigate these changes and scan the horizon for what’s around the corner. When used correctly, Talent Intelligence can help make companies more agile, adaptable and precise with their recruiting efforts and employee strategies. Fundamentally, however, we need to ensure we’re investing in our Talent Intelligence capabilities to keep us aligned with a rapidly-changing world.”

Don’t miss Google at the Talent Intelligence Conference

Catch Google (and many others) at the first-ever edition of the Global Talent Intelligence Conference. On September 27-28, Intelligence Group will organise the Talent Intelligence Conference in collaboration with ToTalent, Stratigens, Werf& and the Talent Intelligence Collective. Limited tickets are available, so book your tickets quickly.

How Booking.com uses Talent Intelligence to connect the dots of all talent trends

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The economic landscape’s turbulence has pushed organisations to seek comprehensive talent insights. Talent Intelligence bridges the gap between external and internal talent trends, guiding strategic talent decisions. “That’s why at Booking.com, Talent Intelligence works to connect the dots between external and internal talent trends in order to influence decisions around how we hire, retain and organise our talent”, Dooley and Carney say.

“Talent Intelligence works to connect the dots between external and internal talent trends in order to influence decisions around how we hire, retain and organise our talent.”

“We have seen an increased demand from our stakeholders on using data and the continuously changing market trends to enable our leadership and managers. There is so much data out there, it is important that we highlight what is important for them to take forward in strategic decision-making.”

Want to learn more about Talent Intelligence?

Book your tickets to the first-ever Global Talent Intelligence Conference.

The benefits of Talent Intelligence

Kari Carney

A well-structured Talent Intelligence team empowers HR and Talent Acquisition partners to proactively bring insights to stakeholders. That’s no different at Booking. “For us, the infrastructure of our Talent intelligence team allows us to enable our partners in Talent Acquisition and HR to be proactive in bringing insights to their stakeholders”, they say. “And to be better equipped to advise at various levels of the business.”

“We can respond to trends, so we can be bleeding-edge when it comes to our attraction and engagement tactics and strategy.””

“We can be agile in individualised conversations with hiring managers and candidates alike. Tailored strategies to address identified areas of opportunity. We can respond to trends, so we can be bleeding-edge when it comes to our attraction and engagement tactics and strategy. As well as being able to prioritise components of a winning candidate experience.”

Empowered to use data

Booking.com’s talent market-mapping and market supply and demand trends tool empower teams to engage candidates effectively, influence hiring strategies, and adapt to evolving talent landscapes. “One of the first enablement tools we delivered as a team was centred around talent market-mapping and market supply and demand trends.”

“We created a centralised methodology and consistent framework that ensured our talent attraction teams and hiring managers are empowered to use the latest data. This allows them to have more valuable conversations with candidates, influence hiring strategy and understand location strategies and how the talent landscape is changing.” 

Combining passion for talent and data

Simone Dooley

Simone Dooley, the Lead Talent Intelligence Partner at Booking.com, shares her journey in a role that wasn’t all too common just a few years ago. “When I first joined Booking.com, the Talent Intelligence team was in its infancy and my focus was to build up our competitive intelligence infrastructure and framework.” Dooley has quite a diverse background within recruitment in the Tech sector. With a special interest in analytics and project management.

“For us, it’s about the collaboration, curiosity and open-mindedness of both our partners and stakeholders.”

“This has stood me in good stead and – combining my passion for talent and data – led me to a career in Talent Intelligence. A key driver of the success of the program is the strong customer-centric culture at Booking.com. For us, it’s about the collaboration, curiosity and open-mindedness of both our partners and stakeholders.”

Educating recruiters

A crucial first step involved educating the Recruiting teams about efficient tracking methods and providing enablement tools. “So that they could effectively utilise our Talent Intelligence programs”, Dooley says. “I recognised right away the importance of aligning this new program with our Recruiting team’s existing infrastructure and ways of working. What began as a success story of enabling our recruiting teams to consistently share market insights to influence their stakeholders has scaled into a program that impacts across many departments and all levels of our organisation, which is really rewarding to see.”

‘Start small’

From their experience, what would Dooley and Carney advice be for organisations that still have to start from scratch? “Start small. For example, one of the first successful projects for us was simply understanding and defining our organisation’s talent competitors. This was a great opportunity to use internal and external data points to test a theory and build a data driven story.”

“Data analysis, story-telling and curiosity are must haves for any talent intelligence professional.”

And while starting small is always a good idea, Dooley sees a critical role for TI leaders in the future. “In my view, Talent Intelligence leaders play a critical role in bringing together expertise from both the internal and external talent lens. Data analysis, story-telling and curiosity are must haves for any talent intelligence professional. However, another critical element to leadership is leading with values. We keep our guiding principles of collaboration, impact, simplicity and empowerment at the forefront of how we execute, building trust and confidence along the way.”

The future of Talent Intelligence

So where is it all headed? Talent Intelligence is, of course, still a fairly new word that has entered the recruiting space. Will the rise of TI turn out to be a turning point for Talent Acquisition and recruiting? “In the not-so-distant future, I think we will regard this period as a pivotal moment in the world of HR, Recruitment, and Talent Intelligence. With technology increasingly embracing automation and scalability, talent intelligence teams will advance their expertise to play a vital role in shaping the long-term talent strategy of organisations. The best is yet to come.”

Don’t miss Booking at the Talent Intelligence Conference

Catch Simone Dooley and Kari Carney from Booking.com (and many others) at the first-ever edition of the Global Talent Intelligence Conference. On September 27-28, Intelligence Group will organise the Talent Intelligence Conference in collaboration with ToTalent, Stratigens, Werf& and the Talent Intelligence Collective. Book your tickets here.

Florin Ciontu (The Stepstone Group): ‘AI is a revolution in the online recruitment market’

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The Stepstone Group’s mission is a fairly simple one: the right job for everyone. Active in more than 30 countries, they are responsible for one of the world’s leading job platforms, with a singular aim: ‘to disrupt the job market and make it work properly’. And to be able to come good on that mission, the Group has focused on implementing Artificial Intelligence within its core offerings.

The rush for Generative AI

The Stepstone Group has used AI for a number of years, but Florin Ciontu, Senior Vice President Product B2C at The Stepstone Group, was surprised and excited to see the rapid development of Generative AI. “In particular Large Language Models (LLM), a type of AI that has been trained on large amounts of text and is able to understand and summarise natural language. We’ve had quite a few colleagues already working on AI and it was remarkable to see how quickly everyone rushed to explore the potential of the new technologies.”

A group effort

Over the past year, Ciontu says The Stepstone Group has had more than a hundred colleagues contribute with ideas for using LLM’s. “Such as Open AI’s GPT-3 Turbo and GPT-4, which are also used by ChatGPT. And several products have already entered development. In addition to using these models in our core products, we have also decided to make some of our core job search services in Germany available directly through ChatGPT and the Open AI interface. This is an opportunity to bring our services to an early adopter audience and is also part of our ongoing exploration of new channels and user experience paradigms.”

Better matching

While the GenAI discussion usually takes place around what it promises: generating content for recruitment, Ciontu says AI has long been part of core matching technologies. “Particularly as a way to deliver high quality and personalised job search results. The use of AI in this area continues to evolve, with Large Language Models enabling a deeper understanding of both jobseeker profiles and job ads, and therefore better matching.”

“At The Stepstone Group we have been fortunate to have talented and passionate teams who have been able to build products around these new technologies in just a few months.”

Beyond matching, Generative AI now enables us to offer guidance and advice across the entire jobseeker journey, including areas such as help with drafting CV and cover letters or preparing for interviews. These features have only recently been rendered. At The Stepstone Group we have been fortunate to have talented and passionate teams who have been able to build products around these new technologies in just a few months.”

New AI Interviewer

One of the key features, as recently launched by the Stepstone Group, is an AI Interviewer. “Our AI Interviewer prototype provides advice and guidance to jobseekers by acting as an interview coach. The AI can generate relevant interview questions based on the job ad, provide feedback and help refine answers, allowing jobseekers to prepare for the unfamiliar situations often encountered in interviews at their own pace and with confidence.”

“AI will not replace recruiters, as the human touch they bring to the hiring process, including personal rapport, cultural fit, and other ‘soft’ factors, remains essential for successful recruiting.”

“This can be a very useful tool and ultimately a nice complement to what has traditionally been an entire industry consisting of books and other interview preparation materials. “However, AI will not replace recruiters, as the human touch they bring to the hiring process, including personal rapport, cultural fit, and other ‘soft’ factors, remains essential for successful recruiting.”

User feedback at the centre of everything 

While the usage of AI is becoming more prevalent, a survey by Pew Research Center has illustrated job seekers aren’t all that keen on having their futures decided by AI. They asked 11,000 Americans about their attitudes towards AI and the workplace, and a majority (66%) said they would not want to apply for a job where AI helps make hiring decisions.

For The Stepstone Group, the job seeker is always at the centre of any type of product build or innovation, Ciontu says. “Even when we leverage AI, the starting point is always the user’s pain point and, ultimately, the goals of the tasks they want to accomplish. Traditionally, these tasks have been fulfilled by products, based on more classical algorithms. The biggest opportunity for using AI is simply to make the experience in existing products much more fluid and natural.” 

“In other cases, we can use AI to enable greater and better-quality support from HR specialists. In a sense, AI is not replacing human interaction; rather, AI is replacing classic algorithms and augmenting human potential. Still, there is always a fine balance, so whenever we implement a new tool, the ultimate decision to go live or not is based on our user feedback.”

AI ethics: the onus is on suppliers 

For job seekers, it may just be another case of time that may heal any concerns about the way AI is being used by companies to screen and assess candidates. But along with potential benefits of new AI technologies, come fundamental questions in areas ranging from ethics to data protection and copyright. “Existing EU regulations touch on some of these aspects, and new ones are being developed that will hopefully provide a framework for the industry.”

“We have colleagues focused exclusively on data ethics and we are actively working to integrate solutions to detect and remove bias.”

“However, the field is moving very fast. Hardly a week goes by without some kind of significant innovation, so providers and users of the technology need to play their part. At The Stepstone Group, we have always seen it as part of our role to act responsibly and proactively to address these issues. We have colleagues focused exclusively on data ethics and we are actively working to integrate solutions to detect and remove bias, misinformation, harmful or toxic content.”

AI as a companion 

So what are some of the long-term AI targets for The Stepstone Group? “AI is nothing less than a revolution in the application and recruitment market. With ‘the great people shortage’ ahead, AI is being used to improve both job search and recruitment”, Ciontu says. “Ultimately, if I am a jobseeker, an online job platform like Stepstone should be my job search companion that knows me, brings me all the relevant job ads and simplifies everything. A companion that is always there for me and cares about my success.”

“While there is quite a bit of work to do to accomplish this vision, the progress in key technologies such as the ability to have conversations in natural language has already brought this future closer. We can imagine a similar type of scenario for hiring managers who will no longer have to spend time on tedious coordination. Finding or rescheduling appointments, but instead focusing on the areas where they bring most value.”

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