How EY is Trying to Attract Recent Graduates Through a Multifaceted Adventure

If everyone is using A.I., what do organizations have left to distinguish themselves from others? According to Matthew Jeffery, currently Head of Talent Attraction and Acquisition at the UK (and Ireland) division of EY, one crucial aspect remains: employer branding. “If, as a data analyst, you find 50 to 100 fully automated InMails in your inbox, all with the message: ‘come work for us,’ then strong employer branding is essential to actually convince someone to open that email and respond.”

And this is not just a significant task for a large accounting and consulting firm like EY, or one of the other Big Four, according to Jeffery (who, by the way, is leaving EY after 4 years). The Big Four are competing in the job market not only against each other but also against major consumer brands and Big Tech, he said during a podcast recorded at the recent World Employer Branding Day in Amsterdam, where he also shared the stage with his colleague, Head of Student Liz Noble. Especially among the younger generations. “When we are in the office, we think everyone knows EY as the brilliant company we are, but as soon as we go to campuses, we find that we still have to explain who we are and what we do to 90% of the students. We often misjudge this.”

Blue and white Prince shoes

Jeffery brought a pair of cloud shoes known from Raspberry Beret by Prince, to illustrate his main message: always put yourself in the candidate’s shoes. What do they want to achieve? And what do they want to hear? “We tend to think from: what does the business want to achieve? But it’s still the candidate who has to respond. My message is therefore: always look from the candidate’s perspective.”

‘It’s still the candidate who has to respond. My message is therefore: always look from the candidate’s perspective.’

And that means for EY: debunking many myths, adds Noble, her colleague. “Many students, for example, have never heard of our brand or even our work. And if they have, they often have prejudices about it. That it’s very boring, for example, or that you must be really good at math or calculations. It’s up to us to show that this work offers them very good opportunities and can be quite varied.”

The adventure awaits

Noble and Jeffery were in Amsterdam to discuss Adventure Awaits, an interactive (UK) site aimed at the new generations Z and Alpha, where they can get to know the company in a playful way, for example through an EcoLodge (where they learn about EY’s sustainability efforts) and a Community Peak, where a mountain of information can be found about what the company does in terms of diversity, online support groups, and communities. But there is also information available about Audit and Tax, so they can choose where their preference might lie.

The site is already quite interactive via the web browser, but turns into a kind of 3D Metaverse digital immersive gamified portal when Noble’s team takes it to campuses, she explains. “Then it becomes a kind of augmented reality,” she explains. “Then we really bring it to life.” Human interaction is also indispensable in this process, emphasizes Jeffery. “On campus, Liz and her team build trust. Because we still believe that human relationships offer more meaning than A.I.”

‘We show the reality of our culture, but in a fun, accessible way.’

But, honestly, to what extent does a promise like ‘The adventure awaits‘ match the actual life at the company? More than you might think, Jeffery emphasizes. “We show the reality of our culture, but in a fun, accessible way.”

Almost 5 minutes

And it works, Noble proudly shares. The average visitor spends almost 5 minutes browsing the interactive site, with some ‘zones’ averaging visit times of 7 to 8 minutes. “In Bushcraft, for example, there are videos where recruiters explain what applying to EY entails. We hope that those candidates will help them to be more successful.” The site has also already won a significant (Digital Experience for Early Talent-) award at the 2024 RAD Awards.

And that success fuels more ambitions, she notes. For 2025, the so-called Apprentice Oasis is planned, a similar project through which EY aims to entice high school students not to go to university first but to start a training program directly at the company. This campaign will not only target students but also other decision-makers like teachers and parents. It will include more traditional campaign tools than immersive games with various experiences, Noble confirms.

Rolling out globally

Moreover, she believes it is possible to roll out the concept more broadly than just England and Ireland. “Freddy the Fox is probably as English as it gets. But there’s little in the game concept that wouldn’t allow it to be used globally. I see no reason why that couldn’t be the case. The concepts we are addressing are quite universal for Generation Z and Generation Alpha.”

Jeffery emphasizes the importance of staying relevant: “It’s about continuously innovating. If we stop, we will fall behind, and that would be a disaster. If we rely too much on A.I., we will lose that human touch.”

Noble adds: “The most important thing is the human connection. Without that, our results will suffer.”

“If you don’t focus on people analytics, you will disappear from the market.”

To understand how Textkernel’s products and services fit into the context of people analytics, Stephan takes us a few steps back into history. “We started in the HR world with Cv parsing. We parse around 2.5 billion CVs annually. From there, we expanded to job descriptions, matching people with jobs using a shared taxonomy. We developed a tool called Jobs Data, which crawls job ads in 15 countries. This gave us valuable data on global job requirements and helped us build a skills taxonomy. That’s how we fit into people analytics.”

Defining a skills strategy

Telefonica uses Textkernel’s technology for several things,” adds Sarah. First, we use the taxonomy to standardize our skills landscape. We also use APIs for automated processes, like extracting skills from job descriptions. We use it for matching candidates to roles, and the external market data helps us benchmark and analyze trends in skill demand. This data informs our skills strategy.”

Not tools but ingredients

“It’s important to understand that Textkernel doesn’t offer tools,” explains Stephan.

“We offer ingredients, like APIs, which companies like Telefónica can integrate based on their needs. The focus is on long-term workforce planning. For example, predicting what skills will be needed due to retirements in four or five years allows them to plan ahead.”

“My team focuses on skills management, learning, and development,” complements Sarah. “We analyze our workforce to identify skill gaps and compare the skills we have with what we’ll need in the future. Based on that, we make decisions about recruiting or upskilling. That’s where Textkernel’s data and applications come in.”

Skills management

“The use case we will present is about workforce management – specifically, how we decide which skills to develop internally versus buying externally. We’re focusing on a ‘make or buy’ decision based on skills, which is a new perspective on this topic. Long-term strategic skills are the ones we invest in, while temporary or non-core skills are outsourced to consultants or freelancers.

Stephan will then present Textkernel‘s product portfolio to offer insights in how it can be used to realize this use case and others.”

Talent intelligence is crucial

For Stephan, adopting a data-driven approach by  HR departments is simply a matter of survival. “The hiring process has become more complex and diverse. If you don’t know what skills you need, how would you look for applicants in the future, especially if you can’t find them locally? You need to understand your company’s strategy, vision, and purpose because it directly impacts your talent strategy. You also need to know about the talent in your company, about your competition, and about what other companies in your area are looking for. If you don’t do the groundwork to understand what skills and talent are needed internally, what is available externally, and what’s in demand in the labor market, you won’t stay competitive.”

An exciting domain

Sarah observes that HR still has lots of potential in data analytics and data-driven decision-making. “We’re in an exciting domain that will see lots of growth I the near future. In the past, we have seen high competition among employees for the jobs they wanted, with the employer being able to choose from various suitable candidates. Today, most companies experience a war for talent and a shortage of many skills. Using talent intelligence can be one important competitive factor to attract and retain the right talent”.

“I’m really looking forward to the conference. I’m interested to hear what other companies are doing and to learn from them. There’s so much knowledge to share in this area, and I’m excited to hear all these interesting talks and see what others are doing and what will be our take-aways.”

Talent Intelligence Conference

Stephan and Sarah will be present at the Talent Intelligence Conference 2024. Unfortunately, the event is already sold out. Didn’t get your ticket? Secure your spot for next year now at a great discount!

Tickets

“Which organization wouldn’t want to understand how its workforce is structured?”

During his nearly 20-year career at ABN AMRO, Patrick Coolen held various senior HR roles. More then half of this, time his focus was on HR and data as Global Head of HR Advanced Analytics, Workforce Management, HR Dashboards and Survey Management. “Back then, we started with modeling, using statistics and machine learning to better understand which HR factors impact business goals. Eventually we added the reporting landscape and things like survey management, continuous employee listening programs and strategic workforce management. Basically all the products and services that HR works with that have something to do with data and insights. At KennedyFitch, I advise organizations on how to integrate these tools in their HR practices.”

Pursuing a PhD

Patrick became so taken with HR and People Analytics that he wanted to delve deeper into the subject. “That led to my PhD research at Tilburg University, in which I study the adoption and institutionalization of advanced people analytics within larger companies. I want to understand what factors cause an organization to succeed in implementing people analytics into their HR practices. In my presentation, I’ll share insights from my research combined with my extensive practical experience. Among other things, I will discuss where we are now in the field of people analytics and talent intelligence and where I think it should be heading.”

Talent intelligence: a necessity

Patrick is adamant that larger organizations can’t afford to delay implementing talent intelligence. “As an organization, why not do everything possible to understand your workforce, how your people feel, what their ambitions are, how to better assemble teams, what leadership styles are out there, what their influence is on sales? Who wouldn’t want to know that? It allows you to make faster and better decisions. People analytics provides insights that help you hire people with the right skillset and influence goals like sales, client growth and market growth, but it also helps with things like fraud detection and increasing engagement. Ultimately, people analytics is not just about organizational goals, but also about the well-being of employees, about their optimal place within the bigger picture.”

ROI guaranteed 

“The good news,” Patrick adds, “is that you don’t need to invest heavily to get started with people analytics or talent intelligence. All you need is a data scientist and HR data to link together. If you hit the mark even once, you’ll have repaid the entire department’s investment for ten years!  The important thing is to start one step at a time. It’s not about who has the best AI tools or the most data. Your organization needs to grow with the process. Make sure you have the right skills and that what you are exploring is relevant to your organization. Think of it as a roadmap, where you gradually improve in applying talent intelligence. In my presentation, I’ll focus on how to practically implement talent intelligence, step by step.”

Join the Global Talent Intelligence Conference

Patrick Coolen will share his insights at the upcoming Global Talent Intelligence Conference held in Amsterdam from September 23 to September 25. For those interested in staying ahead in the competitive talent landscape, this conference is a must-attend. Sign up now to gain invaluable insights from leading experts in the field and discover how Talent Intelligence can revolutionise your organisation’s approach to human capital management. The tickets are almost sold out.

Dr. Philipp Karl Seegers: “More Data for Better Recruiting.” 

Dr. Seegers, what does your company do? 

We compare educational qualifications. Ten years ago, we initiated a research project at the university to investigate why grades are not predictive of the labour market. So, we started collecting data. On the one hand, locally, to assess whether a grade in a specific course at a particular university is good or bad. On the other hand, we collected students’ performance indicators to compare across different courses. We have conducted more than 30 studies in the context of this research project. 

Over time, this has grown into a company. We now automatically pre-select educational qualifications for large companies. We also do this for students, who can use our services to assess themselves. 

Which companies approach you? 

Firstly, large companies like DHL and Porsche receive many applications from different countries. Then there are consultancies, such as Simon Kucher and large accounting firms. Thirdly, there are the universities themselves which use our services for admission to their master’s programs. 

Your statement “Education is important, grades are not” is quite provocative, considering that your work revolves around grades, isn’t it? 

Not really. Education is excellent, but our company wouldn’t exist if grades were good. Students’ performance must somehow be translated into a number, which is grades. However, cross-contextually, you can no longer determine their actual performance because, for example, we have different grading standards: At some universities, a ‘two’ is the best grade; at others, it is the worst. 

Accordingly, grades are only predictive of success in a homogeneous group—that is, for students who have attended the same course at the same university. However, a company almost always receives applications from various contexts and universities. Due to all the noise, grades no longer carry meaningful information. 

Is that also important in a globalised labour market? 

Yes, absolutely. However, even within Germany, we have 30,000 degree programs and almost 500 universities offering bachelor’s, master’s, and doctoral degrees. The diversity is immense. Abroad, the grading and education systems are even more diverse. 

Thanks to the case, companies can, therefore, easily assess how a candidate has completed his or her studies, regardless of university, course of study, and degree. 

Instead of conducting further aptitude tests, existing test results from the studies are compared using a lot of data and statistics. So, we can put them on the same scale. A valid measured value for the young person’s performance is created. 

Does the system also work for soft skills not graded at university? 

The term “soft skills” is often too vaguely defined for me. However, from a scientific perspective, studies do reward certain traits, such as conscientiousness, agreeableness, or openness to new experiences. These traits are also important in the labour market, so it’s not just about cognitive abilities. 

What will participants take away from your webinar? 

Why is education excellent, and grades are not – as the title suggests? We now have 40 million students in China, about 40 million in India, 20 million in the USA and another 20 million in Europe. That is half of all students worldwide, totalling 240 million. 

The promise of education continues to work because education enables economic and social advancement. Despite the shortage of skilled workers, applicants from countries such as India are often sorted out immediately. Yet some universities in India are more selective than Harvard or Oxford. It’s just that nobody knows them here. 

Should employers be more open? 

Yes, that would benefit our economy as a whole. Of course, there are arguments against it, such as language proficiency, as Germany is still very focused on the German language. But I would also like it if we just spoke English more often.  

If we are more open to international profiles, we must also be able to separate the wheat from the chaff. Initially, there was an information deficit here because we did not know the educational landscape abroad, for example. We help to reduce this deficit. 

How do you assess the development of the labour market for the future? 

You only have to look at the data of the Statistisches Bundesamt on population development. The cohorts with the highest birth rates will leave the labour market in the next ten years – cohorts of 1.2 to 1.3 million people. The cohorts following them are the smallest, with 600,000 to 700,000 people. That means we are missing a good half a million people every year. 

Accordingly, I hope the trend towards the international labour market will also become increasingly apparent in Germany, even if politicians do not support it and instead put up enormous bureaucratic hurdles. We should be more open to the migration of educated, motivated people. 

What are you curious about? 

I hope we will make recruitment processes more objective, fairer, and understandable. Whether the ATS or the algorithm helps make better decisions, technology is crucial in this. 

What do you expect from the webinar tage? 

I am looking forward to an exciting exchange, meeting nice people, and, of course, to many exciting questions! 

Webinar Tage

This article is written by Lydia Stöflmayr.

  

Interview with René Tillmann (hijob): “More Humanity in HR Thanks to AI” 

hijob’s AI was trained with publicly available data as well as data collected by the company itself in the course of its activity. Sources include business networks, CV databases and social media. 

AI Without Bias 

Tillmann and his team handle the sensitive topic of data security with care. hijob  has hired a lawyer for IT and media law with a focus on GDPR as their data protection officer. Clear guidelines were established back in 2015 when hijob, one of the first HR companies in the DACH region to develop AI models, was founded. These guidelines are still in place today. 

“It was clear to us that AI had to be free of bias. By this, we mean that several dimensions, such as gender, age and ethnicity, are eliminated from the AI’s training data. We focus only on skills and professional experiences,” explains Tillmann on the sensitive topic. “The data used comes exclusively from public profiles and people who have agreed to hijob’s data protection policy. Resumes are very sensitive data, so we always separate them from personal data to avoid any conclusions about individuals.” However, Tillmann is confident that, in the future, more data will be shared in the interest of transparency and predictability: “Technology is not an end in itself – when users understand that data leads to a greater understanding of the overall situation, they may be willing to contribute.” 

VEGA: HR Analyses at the Push of a Button 

hijob’s new software, the HR AI VEGA, has been added to the company’s offering since July 2024. It is an AI tailored to human resources, allowing users to understand their market environment better. “HR departments often clash with other departments in a company and are not taken seriously enough, facing pressure to justify themselves. VEGA builds bridges and provides data on the number of skills and career trajectories of potential candidates. This allows budgets to be optimized and priorities set based on facts.” VEGA was designed for direct use by companies, which, with minimal input, receive comprehensive answers and analyses to their questions autonomously. 

Webinar Tage – Automation Gives Time for Human Interaction 

On September 18th at 2:15 p.m., Mr. Tillmann will hold a webinar on “Technology and Humanity: Can an HR AI Be Humanistic?”. He deliberately worded the title provocatively because, in his view, many fears are stoked regarding AI: “I believe that our HR AI is indeed humanistic. It’s about allowing people to make the most of their potential. Our AI helps with that. Thanks to its insights, companies look beyond a resume’s surface. The AI also suggests profiles of individuals who, according to the algorithm, will develop into a certain role in the coming months. Such talents typically stay in their position for long when given the chance to showcase and grow their potential.” 

However, humans should continue to question the statements of AI and should never blindly surrender to technology. “The AI only shows possibilities; it doesn’t make the decision,” explains Tillmann. The recruiting expert encourages employers to engage more with people, spurred by the AI’s suggestions. Automation and technology provide the time for this: “People don’t like talking to people and hide behind a lack of time. Yet, it is still important to talk to and engage with one another individually. Everyone deserves to understand where their skills are welcomed, and human resources in general need to become more human – also with the help of AI.” 

A Look into the Future of Humans and AI 

Tillmann is convinced that AI will massively change the world: “We as a society and every employee must ask ourselves what role we want to play when many things are automated.” 

For the Webinar Tage, René Tillmann hopes that the participants will recognize the added value of VEGA, as he has already experienced with many of his customers. However, if the opposite is the case, then the AI expert is happy about constructive criticism and a lively exchange with a lot of humanity.  

In the meantime, those interested can get to know the expert on AI and the world of work as a podcast host in his podcast Helden der Arbeit (Heroes of Work). 

This article is written By Lydia Stöflmayr.

Interview with Marcus Merheim (hooman): “We send companies on a journey of self-discovery” 

Employer Branding: From Introspection to External Communication 

The process begins with an analysis of the company – Merheim is used to signing non-disclosure agreements because companies should not have to keep secrets from him. He and his team gain deep insights into internal processes and corporate culture: “Companies think they don’t know much about themselves. Yet many of them already have a lot of data available that they can use to understand their current state. The record is 50 documents we received for analysis.”  

“Many employers have problems finding and retaining people because they don’t know what they stand for,” explains Merheim. “Often, it’s unspoken things that have never been structured or written down. So, it’s about companies going on a ‘self-discovery trip’ to figure out: What do we stand for? What are our values? Who are we looking for? And who are we not looking for?” 

Based on the data, workshops, and anonymized employee surveys, the corporate culture and the existing system are analyzed, and anchor points are identified. However, Marcus Merheim emphasizes that it is not his job to spread marketing messages. “In our cultural analyses, we uncover the positive aspects and work out the negative points.” He is convinced these knots must be untied because they will otherwise keep getting in the way. After the analysis, hooman advises on organizational development and internal and external communication to align theory and practice. 

Marcus Merheim at Webinar Tage 

On September 17th at 11:45 a.m., Marcus Merheim will hold a webinar on “No Facade without a Foundation – Why Employer Branding is the Key to Success in Finding and Retaining Employees.” The title was chosen deliberately. Today, employers are forced to deal with their image due to the existence of platforms like Kununu . But a facade without a foundation doesn’t work. Large budgets are not always needed to work on employer identity. It often starts with common sense and self-critical reflection. “I can only urge employers to engage with this because the effort is worth it,” encourages Merheim. 

Facade Employer Branding vs. Holistic Approach Employer Identity 

Some companies are shortsighted and fail to recognize their weaknesses. Clichés and standard phrases can often be found in job advertisements, along with stock photos of idealized employees grinning with their bleached teeth and high-fiving each other. 

“Of course, it’s also about image,” says Merheim, “but mainly about actively influencing how people behave in the company and creating coherence with its values.” Implementing this is not just a management task. Employees should experience corporate culture collectively and make it a mindset. “Every employee should contribute, reflect on the central elements of the corporate culture, and behave accordingly.” 

For this reason, Marcus Merheim is also critical of employer branding. It’s not just about a facade but a holistic approach defined by an authentic employer identity.  

Fruit Baskets and the Search for Meaningful Work  

Today, it is not only the employers who have a precise idea of the employee profile they are looking for but also the employees who know precisely what the desired employer profile looks like. “Employers should communicate authentically and honestly and admit weaknesses,” advises Marcus Merheim.  

He warns against enlarging the proverbial fruit basket and luring with more benefits to strengthen employee retention: “That has nothing to do with corporate culture. You can’t buy it; you have to earn it. Studies show that people are even willing to give up part of their salary if they can work in an environment where they are happy. For the younger generations, like Gen Z, meaningfulness is an important topic. At the same time, every company has something that can interest people.” 

“Jobs that offer a strong sense of purpose will increase in value in the future, even without higher salaries,” Merheim says, based on his experience in healthcare professions.  

Holistic Brand Management and Practical Relevance  

Merheim is optimistic about the future: “More and more companies will realize that now is the time to engage in self-reflection. Under the banner of holistic brand management, I believe that companies will no longer focus on their employer brand, but that the corporate brand, product brand, and financial brand will be unified, carrying a consistent thread.”  

Marcus Merheim appreciates the practical relevance of the Webinar Tage. “We don’t need meta-level discussions; we need to be hands-on and close to the topic.” He looks forward to much input and is confident that the Webinar Tage will provide excellent value for all participants. 

This article is written By Lydia Stöflmayr.

Ronald Kreugel: “Change is the Only Constant”

Two years ago, he consciously chose to join Nétive VMS GmbH, a smaller company. Here, he is the Country Manager for the DACH region and primarily works on technological solutions for clients and partner companies to digitize and optimize their external recruitment processes. Vendor management systems (VMS) such as Nétive are cloud-based software systems. They facilitate and accelerate the recruitment and management of external workers but can also be used as the basis for a talent strategy. 

Mr. Kreugel, you are not only responsible for the German market, but also for the Austrian and Swiss markets? 

“Nétive VMS launched in Germany two years ago, and such a large market requires a lot of attention and commitment. Compared to Germany, Switzerland and Austria are smaller markets, but there are many similarities, such as language, legislation, and processes. Therefore, our focus is broader than just Germany, and we concentrate our Nétive VMS platform on the entire DACH region.” 

How do these countries differ from your point of view? 

“In addition to similarities, there are of course also differences, especially in terms of corporate culture and the way they do business. As a Dutch company, we have to prove every time that we understand the respective market and can meet the wishes and requirements of customers and partners in these markets. This requires the necessary flexibility and a willingness to adapt anew each time.” 

On September 18th at 10:15 a.m., Kreugel will hold a webinar on “More Efficient Management of Temporary Workers in Germany” for the Webinar Tage. When asked what insights he will present as a speaker, Kreugel replies: “In Germany, there is a lot of talk about digitalization, but the acceptance of the technology still leaves a lot to be desired, especially among HR. By intelligently using technology and systems, these departments can save a lot of time through the automation of daily routine tasks and thus focus more on their strategic responsibilities. Vendor Management Systems have been on the market for over 20 years, and many organizations have gained a lot of experience in various countries, from which the DACH region can also benefit.” 

Kreugel expects many participants from human resources departments at the Webinar Tage who are open to new developments and insights to digitize and simplify their work: “We want to collaborate with them to improve the job market and enable them to find and hire talent while providing a good experience for everyone involved in the hiring process. And no question is too much. We are happy to share our knowledge and experience, so we participate in these Webinar Tage.” 

Kreugel mainly advises employers to invest in new technologies. He recommends using less Outlook, Excel, and other tools and gaining more transparency and insights through a VMS platform while better complying with regulations.  

Kreugel does not see the potential contrast between the flexibility desired by employers and the needs of employees as problematic: “In the countries surrounding Germany, the use of flexible workers is even more widely accepted and has increased enormously in recent years. Given the shortage of skilled workers, demand will only continue to rise, and then it is good to have a technology platform that helps a company find and hire talent. Without technology, it will become increasingly difficult for companies to find their talents, which could weaken their competitive position. Also, employees are increasingly searching the internet for interesting jobs and tasks, and with the new generations, it is unavoidable to use technology.” 

The intelligent use of AI is very important for organizations and is developing rapidly. “This will become more and more apparent in the future. These are trends that we, our customers, and external talents must consider. Change is the only constant.” 

Webinar Tage

Ronald Kreugel will share his expertise on September 18th at the webinar at 10:15 a.m. and looks forward to the active participation of those interested in human resources. 

More information

This article is written By Lydia Stöflmayr.

Recruiting Expert Peer Goudsmit on the Potential and Risks of AI

Peer has been working in HR for 25 years. Recently, his focus has primarily been on recruiting strategieshe develops plans and sets the direction. RecruitAgent collaborates with Raven51, among others. Florian Grösch from Raven51 will moderate the Webinar Tage on September 17th.

With RecruitAgent, companies gain insights into the job market in their respective industry, receive compelling texts for job postings, and are advised on how to reach their target audience and where the talent pools are located.  

Peer Goudsmit particularly enjoys working with the team. “Recruitment is varied: psychology and project management all in one. Recruiters understand what matters to an organization. They talk to hiring managers and identify what’s important.” It’s the human aspect that Goudsmit emphasizes. And that won’t change even with the use of AI. For him, artificial intelligence primarily serves to take over the unpopular administrative tasks.  

AI in Recruiting: Tips from Peer Goudsmit 

According to Goudsmit, employers should definitely engage with the topic of AI. It’s best to consult an expert: “For me, it’s always important that ethics are considered, and that data is handled correctly.”  

Goudsmit himself likes to use Perplexity in his work. It is an AI search engine that allows users to choose from various AI models and even generate images. It utilizes Claude, Sora,  and ChatGPT4.0. Unlike other providers, Perplexity also makes the sources of the results available. Of course, Goudsmit has a Pro account, but anyone can also test this tool for free. 

“For many people, AI is something like a computer that does something intelligent,” Goudsmit laughs. “In fact, what we understand by AI is a large language model that can accelerate processes instead, for example, in the creation of job postings. It’s always important to verify and understand what’s going on. At least you need a rough sense of what’s right and wrong.” Asking the right questions (called prompts) is also crucial. Otherwise, collaboration with AI can fail right from the start.  

Therefore, human expertise will continue to be in demand. Peer Goudsmit sees the potential for AI to change the world in the future. Old professions will change, and new ones will emerge.  

On September 17th at 1:30 p.m., Mr. Goudsmit will hold a webinar for the Webinar Tage with the topic: “RecruitAgent.ai & AI in Recruitment”. On this occasion, he wants to encourage the participants to participate actively. They should start playing with AI. “There will be a big difference between those who try it and those who never do. For those who don’t experiment, it will be difficult – the future is already here. Unfortunately, human resources departments are usually not that innovative, they don’t like rapid changes. But AI will come here, too. So take part!” 

The Downsides of AI in Recruiting 

However, Peer Goudsmit is also skeptical about the development of AI: “My concern is, that everything that goes in, will never come out again. If the AI is fed with a certain piece of information, it can show up in the results of other prompts. If a summary of candidates is stored in AI models, the data is simply there. Regarding privacy, I have a critical view of the use of AI.“ 

“‘Fortunately’, we have the AI Act in Europe. There is a saying: you innovate in the United States, you produce in China and you regulate in Europe. According to European law, artificial intelligence algorithms must be publicly accessible to avoid discrimination by AI. A watchful eye should be kept on this, and these are things that need to be questioned. It is not only the responsibility of the providers, but also that of the users. AI can be great, but it also has great risks. If you want to completely innovate, you go to America. There are few limits there.” 

When I ask him if he knows anything that the AI doesn’t know yet, Goudsmit responds with a sly grin: “Yes, of course! But I’ll keep that to myself.” However, he remains curious about the innovations that undoubtedly lie ahead. Humanity and ethics remain of central importance to the recruiting expert: “I’m always curious to talk to people who have a completely different approach than I do. I enjoy that.” 

Webinar Tage

As a speaker at the Webinar Tage, Goudsmit looks forward to exchanging ideas with participants and encouraging them to experiment with AI.

More information

This article is written By Lydia Stöflmayr.

Lukas Sommer (conXisto): ‘Automation is on the rise in Germany’

Lukas Sommer has been involved in sales, consulting and services for over 10 years. His motto is very straightforward: to not overwhelm the customer with a flood of tech talk and 80 pages of Power Point presentations in the first meeting. Sommer may already be known to some people, most recently he was responsible for the German business of JobCloud HR Tech under the Swiss and Austrian flags.

Recently, however, Sommer became responsible for the distribution of conXisto, headquartered in Düsseldorf, in the North Rhine-Westphalia region. What is it that the company does? “We are a service provider for partial or complete business process outsourcing of all personnel topics”, he tells ToTalent in an interview.

Welcome to RPO 101

During the third and final day of the upcoming Webinar Tage, held from September 17 until September 19, Conxisto’s Lukas Sommer will take to the virtual stage. That final day will revolve around a singular topic: Recruitment Process Outsourcing (RPO). “I’ll make make RPO understandable for everyone”, Sommer says. “So that in the end everyone has a basis to make their decisions for or against the topic.”

‘Customers want to be visible these days’

When we asked Sommer about the big shifts in recruitment, he didn’t mince words. “These days, it’s all about being seen”, he said. “Customers want to be visible these days. Most of them want to present themselves as their own brand these days. Because who wants to stand in the second row when they can also have a box seat?”

“Who wants to stand in the second row when they can also have a box seat?”

Automation is on the rise

The Webinar Tage is the first of its kind, bringing together some of the finest voices in HR and recruiting the country has to offer. Zooming in on Germany in particular, what does Sommer see as the biggest, most important trend? “Automation is on the rise”, he says. “Smaller teams now have to complete more tasks, so it makes sense to hand over some or all of the processes. It is important to have a partner at hand who can advise on the processes to be automated and help with implementation.”

“The fear of change or choosing the wrong thing presents many with a challenge that is not really a challenge at all.”

When it comes to adapting to these trends, Sommer acknowledged that many German companies are dragging their feet. “The fear of change or choosing the wrong thing presents many with a challenge that is not really a challenge at all. Here, too, I can recommend getting an expert to explain the options to you in an understandable way.”

‘You have to be careful’

But there’s a reason to be judicious about the process in choosing a potential partner, Sommer warns. “You have to be careful. We’ve all burned through money. So keep an eye out when choosing support. How long has the company been on the market? Are there suitable references for them? Are they sufficiently networked. These are all questions you must ask.”

“We’ve all burned through money. So keep an eye out when choosing support.”

What is the use for data?

Data is a key ingredient in any recruiting process, so much has been made clear by experts from a vast array of different places and spaces. But when delving into the German market, are companies doing enough to leverage the wealth of data options available to them? “What use is data to you if the basis for evaluation has not been created”, Sommer says.

“Of course, we in the industry know that most of them do not have proper data processing. Ultimately, however, I ask myself the question: even if the data were available, at the end of the day, it is the process of using the data that makes sense? It’s useless if you don’t know how to squeeze the good stuff out of it.”

Join the Webinar Tage for free: from Sept. 17 to 19

Due to interest from Germany and other German-speaking countries in all the new developments in the field of recruitment, Werf& and ToTalent have organised a three-day event: the Webinar Tage. From September 17 to 19 this year, several experts from the Netherlands and Germany will present their exclusive insights during various webinars. Attendance is free of charge for all participants. Sign up now!

Inclusivity with AI: Rebecca Hornig (Textmetrics) on Artificial Intelligence and Humanity

As a German-Dutch citizen, she senses the cultural differences that demand different approaches. While the Dutch are more daring in using AI, German-speaking countries are ahead in inclusive language use. “I cannot translate the same message into both German and Dutch. I have to adapt my texts for each country. Additionally, there is a varying level of development. Some organizations have been working with AI daily since the trend emerged last year and know a lot about tools and functionalities. Others have never heard of it.” 

“There are also a lot of prejudices against the use of AI,” continues Rebecca Hornig. “For example, the fear that AI will take away people’s jobs. In Germany, however, the main concern is how data is processed and stored.” 

Both Dutch and Germans are also reaching their limits when it comes to using AI. ChatGPT, for example, is not yet able to create good gender-inclusive texts despite suitable prompts, a UNESCO study confirms. Hornig has also noticed this at recent events and fairs. 

Textmetrics: Humanity Meets AI 

Textmetrics and ChatGPT differentiate themselves, Hornig explains: “ChatGPT is a generative AI, so it ‘understands’ what I want to see and provides me with a corresponding result. The answers are also constantly changing despite the same prompts. Textmetrics also has a generative component but is more of a classifying AI. This means Textmetrics acts as a sort of control instance. Our data is based on algorithms that we have developed ourselves. Data scientist Anna Pillar will also discuss this in our joint webinar. The algorithm of Textmetrics focuses on inclusivity, SEO, branding, style, writing rules, and taboo words – just as the customers want. What makes us special is the human aspect. Our employees work with the customers to create a customized Textmetrics environment. Humans will always be the most important factor. Humanity in conjunction with AI: that’s Textmetrics.” 

Textmetrics has been active for ten years and also works with partners such as Jobdigger, who create the algorithms for the pool factors for Textmetrics. 

Rebecca Hornig at the Webinar Tage: “No fear of AI!” 

Together with her colleague Anna Pillar, Rebecca Hornig will hold a webinar on „Zukunftssicheres Recruiting: Alle 2025-Trends in einer einzigen Software” on September 18th at 1:30 p.m. On this occasion, the two experts want to show that there is no need to fear AI and, on the contrary, that much can be achieved through its use. “Those who use AI correctly, that is, sustainably – such as with Textmetrics – are future-proof. We will also discuss how AI can meet the human demands of inclusivity. Our focus is mainly on inclusive language.” 

AI and Inclusivity 

According to Ms. Hornig, what AI can do better than human authors is objective control.

“Humans always have biases; this cannot be switched off. Unfortunately, this is reflected unintentionally in the texts. Companies that stand for inclusivity and diversity often do not have inclusive or gender-neutral job advertisements. That is a human error, and AI can help if used correctly.” 

Textmetrics goes deeper than gendering or gender-neutral language, which can be set with their own writing rules. “It is mainly the unconscious expressions that we check.” Hornig points out how using male-dominated agentic words deters women from applying. Textmetrics pays attention to these subtleties as well as to the correct structure, such as not including too many bullet points in a job ad. These can deter female candidates if they do not meet 100% of the requirements, while men apply even if they only meet six out of ten required skills, as a study by the Harvard Business Review confirms. 

AI for Everyone 

Rebecca Hornig is sure that there will be more openness to the use of AI in the future: “No one will be able to avoid the use of AI. We expect it to be used as naturally as Google is today. The difficulty here is to recognize good providers. Many seemingly new tools are actually ChatGPT, which has been installed behind a mask. Textmetrics has been around for ten years and has its algorithms. Over time, users will see the differences and understand them better.” 

Webinar Tage

Ms. Hornig can’t wait to share her expertise on September 18th and get to know the German-speaking audience. The participants of the webinar days can look forward to a lively exchange. 

More information

Written by: By Lydia Stöflmayr

Vijay Swaminathan (Draup): ‘Gen-AI presents a tremendous opportunity for Talent Intelligence’

Traditional metrics for measuring workforce success are becoming obsolete in the face of digital transformation. “We have reached a pivotal moment where harnessing the right data sets can empower us to play a truly transformative role”, says Vijay Swaminathan of Draup, a talent intelligence platform. “To unlock this potential, we must redefine measuring success, moving beyond traditional metrics. This means developing new KPIs that capture workforce productivity in the context of digital transformation and AI integration.”

“We also need to assess AI’s effectiveness in augmenting human roles and driving performance. By expanding the boundaries of traditional Talent Intelligence, we can create a more comprehensive and forward-looking view of the workforce, enabling better decision-making and driving strategic growth.”

Emerging trends in Talent Intelligence

Despite having entire conferences named after it, Talent Intelligence is still a relatively niche concept. But Swaminathan sees it rapidly becoming central to strategic workforce planning. Companies are increasingly turning to advanced data sets that go beyond traditional availability and cost metrics. “We are witnessing a blend of emerging trends in this space. Innovative data sets now include peer intelligence, granular skills data, and battle card analysis for competitor insights, along with other unique and specialised assets.”

“The majority of companies continue to rely on traditional data sets such as availability and cost data, while gradually working toward integrating these newer, more advanced datasets into their processes.”

However, the adoption of these new methodologies is not uniform across the business landscape, Swaminathan notes. “The majority of companies continue to rely on traditional data sets such as availability and cost data, while gradually working toward integrating these newer, more advanced datasets into their processes.”

Deeper Talent Intelligence

Draup is a self-described AI-powered talent & sales intelligence platform. In that capacity, the India-headquartered company has amassed over 200 customers throughout the world. So, where do the underlying successes lie? How intelligent is the hiring process they help companies formulate? “Talent intelligence is becoming increasingly vital as the relationship between human labor and machine or AI-driven labor rapidly evolves”, Swaminathan says. “In this shifting landscape, finding and securing the right talent is more critical than ever.”

“We are observing a trend where recruiters are stepping up the value chain by incorporating deeper talent intelligence metrics into the hiring process.”

“We are observing a trend where recruiters are stepping up the value chain by incorporating deeper talent intelligence metrics into the hiring process. This enhanced approach allows them to make more strategic decisions based on a broader range of data. For strategic workforce planners (SWP), this advancement opens new doors for analysis, including leveraging sophisticated techniques like workforce simulations. These tools will enable planners to better anticipate future workforce needs, model different scenarios, and make more informed decisions that align with both human and AI-driven labour forces”

Going beyond headcount data

In an interconnected world, understanding regional differences in talent pools has become a crucial element of any recruiting strategy. “The approach to talent acquisition and workforce planning in emerging global geographies must be fundamentally different from that in more established regions”, Swaminathan adds. A one-size-fits-all strategy simply won’t work. For instance, the talent pool in Shanghai for software development is distinctly different from that in Beijing. While Shanghai is known for its strong software development workforce, Beijing has a greater concentration of R&D talent. These regional differences highlight that relying solely on numbers or workforce size isn’t enough to make informed decisions.”

“By offering such granular insights, Draup enables companies to strategically tailor their talent acquisition efforts.”

With that complexity in mind, Draup takes a more nuanced approach by tracking over one million companies globally to provide a detailed understanding of talent quality and specialisation in different regions. “This allows us to go beyond simple headcount data and offer insights into the specific skills, expertise, and industry focuses available in each location. By offering such granular insights, Draup enables companies to strategically tailor their talent acquisition efforts, ensuring they not only find the right quantity of candidates but also the right quality and fit for their specific needs.”

‘The time to act is now’

Recent advancements in AI, particularly in large language models (LLMs), are opening new possibilities in talent management, Swaminathan observes. “With recent breakthroughs in LLMs, the process of synonymising skills across different systems has become significantly easier and more efficient. This technological advancement allows for better alignment and consistency in skill categorisation, making it simpler to bridge data gaps between platforms and tools.”

“Integrating these technologies within our existing systems will unlock tremendous value and ensure we are prepared to meet the demands of a rapidly evolving digital workforce.”

“Given these capabilities, our profession stands at the cusp of a major transformation”, Swaminathan says. “By leveraging APIs to seamlessly integrate workforce data and utilising LLM-driven synonymisation, we can enhance the accuracy and fluidity of talent insights across systems. This will enable more precise workforce planning, better matching of talent to roles, and improved decision-making processes. The time to act is now.  Integrating these technologies within our existing systems will unlock tremendous value and ensure we are prepared to meet the demands of a rapidly evolving digital workforce.”

TI cases from around the world

But, as always, the proof lies in the pudding. And Swaminathan says there are several companies who are already pioneering new approaches to talent management. “BT’s introduction of specialisms is a brilliant move, showcasing their forward-thinking approach to defining and developing expertise. Similarly, companies like Target excel at integrating industry insights directly into their planning processes, ensuring they stay ahead of the curve.”

“AIG takes a unique approach by clearly defining the specific nature of their roles within the broader spectrum of insurance industry job functions. These examples highlight how companies are pushing the boundaries, and it’s clear we are in an exciting period of transformation in talent management.”

‘An opportunity to lead the transformation’

As the field of talent intelligence continues to evolve, professionals in this space are looking towards even more advanced applications of data and AI. “We need to think beyond conventional approaches and explore new possibilities. By leveraging the vast array of data at our disposal, we can develop more sophisticated models that go beyond traditional supply and demand gap analysis.”

“The emergence of generative AI presents a tremendous opportunity for our profession. It positions us to take the lead in defining and analysing the impact of AI on human labour, shaping the future of work in innovative ways. This is our chance to drive the conversation and lead the transformation.”

Join the Global Talent Intelligence Conference

Vijay Swaminathan will share his insights at the upcoming Global Talent Intelligence Conference held in Amsterdam from September 23 to September 25. For those interested in staying ahead in the competitive talent landscape, this conference is a must-attend. Sign up now to gain invaluable insights from leading experts in the field and discover how Talent Intelligence can revolutionise your organisation’s approach to human capital management.

Robindro Ullah as DATA Mythbuster of Webinar Tage 

As a trained business mathematician, Robindro Ullah has brought many skills from his studies into human resource management. He knows what he discusses when measuring success, key figures, and data-driven work.  

However, companies do not only benefit from the data that Trendence collects. “Trendence has long since ceased to be a market research institute – we have become a talent intelligence company with a solid TEC core,” Ullah specifies. “We have various products for different areas of personnel recruitment. For example, our employer analysis and the 360° extension are often used to manage and test the employer brand. In this context, benchmarking and measuring the employer brand are frequently requested. In recruitment marketing, our data is often used for campaign management – in advance and afterwards, if no data-driven approach was initially taken. Lastly, recruiters like to use our data from market analyses, which we provide for each occupational group or job posting. These include salary ranges, talent availability, and a competitor analysis.” 

Robindro Ullah: Book Author, Podcaster and Host of the Webinar Tage

Books by Robindro Ullah

Ullah is not only a multi-talent with Trendence. He is also very productive in other areas. As a co-author, he has published four books to date: 

Podcasts by Robindro Ullah 

The all-rounder Ullah also currently runs five podcasts: 

Robindro Ullah at Webinar Tage 

As a host and speaker at the Webinar Tage, Robindro Ullah hopes primarily for exchange. ”Of course, I want to provide input to the scene, but just like with my numerous podcast formats, I also wish for discussion and feedback. This makes the HR scene so special for me – there is a strong desire for networking and exchange.”

On September 19th at 10:15 a.m., Robindro Ullah will hold a webinar. Topic: “DATA Mythbuster – What Candidates Think vs. What We Say.” Ullah makes us curious. He wants to clear up some old thought patterns and relies on data and facts: “Maybe you know the book “Factfulness” by Hans Rosling. Although the data and facts say something completely different, people’s mindsets and thoughts are still stuck in an old world. Sometimes narratives come from bygone days, and instead of updating ourselves based on data, we continue to follow the old truths. We see this repeatedly in HR. The number of people who think that because they were young 30 years ago, they know what today’s youth thinks is astonishingly high. I want to uncover some of the common misconceptions here.” 

Participants in the webinar can expect to gain essential insights, promises Ullah.

“Target group insights will be the core of the presentation. These are usually pieces of information that can save many companies from major missteps related to a high budget.” 

What Ketchup and HR Have in Common 

It is surprising to hear that data, despite everything, does not always provide an answer to all questions, even if employers should generally rely on it. However, the dos and don’ts in this field remain complex. Ullah explains this using ketchup:

“Based on data, ketchup is a smoothie because tomatoes are classified as fruit. However, if I also consider user behaviour and usage scenarios, then I would place the ketchup next to the mustard. The simple question is: How many supposed smoothies does HR have in the fridge? It, therefore, makes sense to bring data expertise into the HR department.” 

A Look into the Future 

For the future, Robindro Ullah is particularly excited about the currently ubiquitous topic of AI in HR. “The numerous technological advancements happening at the moment around the Apple Vision Pro and similar gadgets, as well as in the field of Augmented/Virtual Reality, are also interesting. There will be tremendous impacts on our industry.” 

We look forward to welcoming Robindro Ullah to the Webinar Tage. 

Webinar Tage

Robindro Ullah is the chairman of the third day of the Webinar Tage and will introduce the themes of Recruitment Process Outsourcing (RPO) and data Marketing Automation (RMA).

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Written by: By Lydia Stöflmayr